Will Disney buy DWA? No! Universal did!

[ShyViolet]

Like Dragons, it was the freak Exception to the Rule that fans singlehandedly defended the studio with for years--"Whoa, wait a minute: Somebody made this movie WITHOUT Katzenberg, they suddenly went sane! "

Actually JK was very involved in making POE (it was his idea to mimic the camera style and epic scope of David Lean*, the lighting of Gustave Dore and the painting style of Monet), possibly more so than any other DWA film. Unlike some of the future DWA films that would follow years later (Shark Tale, Shrek the Third) it came from his heart. Period.

*The desert scenes were purposely made to resemble Lawrence of Arabia, JK's favorite film.

[EricJ]

Shrek's disgruntled-ex-employee stereotype of "Disney is nothing but fairytales and twittering princesses!" so predates the Lasseter Renaissance, it's almost quaint. In a historical sort of way that you look at and think, "Oh, that's what they thought back then, yeah, things were pretty bad during that long ago era..."

Although to clarify, I would give Shrek 1 a few points over the threadbare, franchise-pimping and feminist-smooching sequels (although just edging in the top 5), just for having at least one expert on successfully fracturing fairy tales on the script, and it shows:
Roger S. Schulman was on the writing staff with experience on co-creating the 80's Saturday-morning "ALFTales" cartoon--now here was fairytale parody done right, with smart pop-ref hipness and no bile--and his influence on the then "revolutionary" idea of parodying Fairytales=Disney is evident.
Some of of the more pop-ref gags-upon-gags Shrek 1 scenes, like the "Dating Game" magic-mirror scene, could have come straight out of the ALFTales cartoon, right down to the exact same timing.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zRJNfBZg_ps

None of the writers (including a pre-Pirates Rossio & Elliott) worked on the sequels, which explains why they were just unfunny marketing tools.

[ShyViolet]

Although to clarify, I would give Shrek 1 a few points over the threadbare, franchise-pimping and feminist-smooching sequels (although just edging in the top 5), just for having at least one expert on successfully fracturing fairy tales on the script, and it shows:
Roger S. Schulman was on the writing staff with experience on co-creating the 80's Saturday-morning "ALFTales" cartoon--now here was fairytale parody done right, with smart pop-ref hipness and no bile--and his influence on the then "revolutionary" idea of parodying Fairytales=Disney is evident.

None of the writers (including a pre-Pirates Rossio & Elliott) worked on the sequels, which explains why they were just unfunny marketing tools.

I actually think there was much more bile and bitterness in the first Shrek, (unapologetically parody after parody) especially compared to Shrek 2, which was better written and focused much more on character development than its predecessor. I certainly agree that Shrek the Third was an "unfunny marketing tool", (some parts still make me cringe) but I'd give Shrek Forever After more points in sincerity and depth, as well as a stronger villain (IMO) than the Godmother or Charming. Rumple RULED!!

[Ben]

I love the progression of Shrek 2, which many people forget it actually blew us away back when it came out.

And Joseph has nothing but a similar style or theme to POE...every other element of the film fails. It's just not there on several critical levels, especially the songs and animation. It soon put an end to DWA's notion of further biblical features.

I love El Dorado and Spirit for what they were. Of the tradigital films, but only Sinbad felt confused and the result of too many cooks in the kitchen. It looks fantastic, though.

[ShyViolet]

Sinbad could have been so much more.

[Dacey]

Sinbad's actually one of my favorite DW films. It's like an animated Pirates of the Caribbean.

[ShyViolet]

It had some marvelous things (the Sirens scene is just stunning) but the story--Sinbad's love for Marina, his friendship with Proteus--was all over the place. A lot of the dialogue was quite hackneyed. (Weird--the Spike scenes were a bit tiresome but I still love Spike lol!). There simply weren't enough scenes truly establishing Sinbad's former friendship with Proteus, or their current rivalry. (Flashbacks could have helped here.). We also never believe the romance between Proteus and Marina (although perhaps that was the point) and when Sinbad's announces his love for her at the end of the film, it springs completely out of nowhere.

None of Sinbad's pirate friends make any real impression. We never learn what exactly is so important about the Book of Peace. And oh my gosh, Michelle Pheiffer's villain never seems truly evil at all and all you can see when she speaks is Michelle Pheiffer. Sinbad is never convincing as a true hero, or even a wild, scruffy pirate. His "execution" scene is meant to be tragic but we never feel this at all. (This is the script's fault but I also feel that Brad Pitt's bland, indifferent performance played a huge role here. The other actors sounded indifferent as well, but Brad Pitt is the absolute worst actor in this film, hands down.)

There were so many wonderful ideas that could have made the film amazing (the monsters, friendship, romance) but as Ben said they all basically melt into each other...too many different flavors produces a dish with no flavor at all. Such a shame. . I remember how excited I was when the film's logo was first released in 2002. Sinbad looked much more interesting (and handsomer lol!) even though we only saw him in profile.

The film is a warmed-over 90s Disney epic, without the wit, emotion, and excitement.

[EricJ]

And back during the 90's days of 2D DWA, when we accused Jeffrey of stealing any in-production Disney script that wasn't nailed down (Spirit = Sweating Bullets, El Dorado = Kingdom of the Sun), remember the theorizing about Sinbad was, "Well, nice to see SOMEONE was a little optimistic about Treasure Planet. "

But it's now remembered as the movie that made Alibi Jeffrey claim "2D is Dead!", put a lot of people out of work, reduce an animation form into near extinction, and turn a Disney CEO into the Donald Trump of Animation.

[Dacey]

*is hastily trying to find Vi's post in which she gave Sinbad a 4-star rating*

Joking aside, though, I thought Michelle Pheiffer was terrific, with amazing character animation to boot.

[ShyViolet]

LOL Dacey!! I know. But that was quite a while ago.

I agree, her design and animation was awesome, which makes it all the more sadder that her performance as Eris was sub-par. (I know that at one point they almost replaced her.) Not trying to dump on Pheiffer or anything, but IMHO she just wasn't suited for the role. (Nicole Kidman would have been better.)

Actually Eric, the 2d artists who worked on Sinbad as well as well other tradigital DWA films were all re-trained in CGI, at the studio's expense. It's Disney who fired most of their 2d artists. And you can't paint JK as the only reason 2d fell: what about Eisner scrapping it so he could keep up with the unbroken string of Pixar's CGI successes? I also think it's weird that no one blames Pixar for only sticking to CGI, (or Brad Bird for making the jump from 2d ).

There were a number of factors that led to traditional animations "extinction", JK's actions concerning DWA 2d films is just one of them.

[EricJ]

And you can't paint JK as the only reason 2d fell: what about Eisner scrapping it so he could keep up with the unbroken string of Pixar's CGI successes? I also think it's weird that no one blames Pixar for only sticking to CGI, (or Brad Bird for making the jump from 2d ).
There were a number of factors that led to traditional animations "extinction", JK's actions concerning DWA 2d films is just one of them.

Yes, but it was originally quoted out of context--JK first alibi'ed off the lame-script box office by saying he felt the mix of CGI effects with 2D characters might have "confused" the audience and they might have "responded better" to all-CGI--but when reporters thought they had the "smoking gun" they needed for why Finding Nemo was a Frozen-like phenomenon and DWA's own Spirit and post-Rugrats cable films like Hey Arnold and Powerpuff Girls were dropping like flies, "Katzenberg sez '2D is Dead'!" was blared across every Variety headline.
And then, of course, after getting the attention and putting all the studio's eggs in Shrek's basket, JK began doubling-down, claiming he did say it, and holding the Disney funeral ceremonies.

So Sinbad may not have been the only reason Eisner went on his extermination campaign; it was more about our mania for the princess-bashing in Shrek 2, which also makes it JK's fault.

[ShyViolet]

Um, how can you hold JK responsible for what a bunch of trade magazines said? It was their choice to write that and proclaim 2d was dead because Finding Nemo was so wonderful. And all the critics piled on praise for Nemo over and over again while trashing Sinbad relentlessly (almost none of them pointed out the film's visual strengths.). JK is is just one person who, true, said that the age of traditionally animated films was dead. But there are plenty of other reasons why 2d fell. (Brad Bird trashing Sinbad when Incredibles was released; calling the animation "thrown at the characters" , couldn't have helped much, could it? In contrast, JK said in summer 2003 that Nemo was the best film of the year and called it "adorable". Who's the bigger person here?)

Eisner may have felt Disney should produce more "fractured fairy tales" like Chicken Little and then-Rapunzel but his main objective was keeping up with Pixar. And it was Eisner's choice to do this. And as for "our mania" for twisted fairy tails, I'm sure there were plenty of people who didn't like the Shrek phenomenon (there were critics who didn't like it and said so) and it's kind of spurious to put the entire Disney audience from all over the world under this one umbrella. And finally: Eisner, Pixar, and "the audience" aren't mindless drones swayed by the fact that one person said something about 2d animation. People all make choices.

[droosan]

I really dug Sinbad when it came out .. my only nitpick was that he shouldn't have gotten the girl. Had Marina stayed true to Proteus in the end, it would have been a much stronger story overall, IMO.

I also liked Eris .. particularly her wispy shape-shifting animation, but also Pfeiffer's voice performance. I really got the sense that Eris was an utterly bored immortal being, out to force something 'interesting' to happen -- if only to break the monotony of her eternal existence. Even though Eris was cross with Sinbad at the end of the movie, there's still a hint of incredulity in her voice that she had guessed wrong about what Sinbad would do .. and perhaps that was all the 'surprise' she'd needed, to be appeased.

Sinbad's 'tradigital' CG hasn't aged very well, however .. less gracefully even than the Harryhausen critters which inspired Sinbad's trials (again, IMO).

[Ben]

Well, at least one person could spell (or be bothered to look up) Michelle Pfeiffer...!

And, no (again) Eric...JK was not optimistic about Treasue Planet. He was the one who thought it was a dumb idea and keep giving Ron 'n' John other films to do. It was only because Hercules made $100m that he finally gave them the greenlight, but he never liked it (and, I guess, was proven right, at least in box office terms).

[Randall]

Funny, I just watched Sinbad again a couple of weeks ago, my first viewing since it first hit DVD. I concur with much of what Vi said.

I "kinda" like it, but more for what it could have been than for what it delivered. It really is a weird sort of story, with the half-explained McGuffin, weakly motivated villain, and of course the romance that really shouldn't have happened.

Why does the girl fall in love with SInbad? Well, because his name is in the title, of course! Never mind that he was a huge jerk to her, and she was engaged to a really nice dude already. Okay, that may be true to life at times , but it sure felt odd in the movie.

The tradigital look is certainly of its time. It held great promise and is cool at times, but does look dated now. Yes, I'll take Harryhausen films any day!