Jurassic Park

[spaz]

i like joe johnston. he get's it. he was very successful with captain america. i wish joe had been around for the 1st jurassic. it would have not been so political; rather, he would have embraced the revolution of how the rex was conceived and built from a trench level (because he is a true artist) and not from silk shirted morons who claimed credit for the revolution of which they had no involvement with.
joe is not threatened by artists and not driven by oscars. ilm got into a pickle because it allowed itself to be threatened by aged useless fx sup's who ultimately were driven by benefiting themselves at the expense of the future of ilm. look at her now, a mess, a mere shadow of what she used to be. bloody sad. shame on all involved.

spaz

[Macaluso]

what the heck are you talking about

[laughingoctopus]

So, this thread is about Joe Johnson. Not Jurassic Park 4.

[Dacey]

I like Joe too, Spaz (Captain America was great)...but JP3 is easily the worst of the three, and I'm very glad that Spielberg directed the first one.

Not that I'm ruling out him doing JP4. I just hope he'd do a much better job with it than he did last time.

[Ben]

Lost World (JP2) was easily the worst of the three.

I love Joe's stuff - you should check out October Sky - but remember not liking the very end coda of Captain America. You can see the exact moment when Joe's film ends, where he says "that's it, that's my Cap movie", and where the Marvel marketing machine begins. It left a sour taste for me since the whole thing then felt like a feature trailer for The Avengers...had they put that last "wake up" sequence in or after the credits it would have felt like a complete movie *and* still set up what was to come.

But that wasn't his choice. I've thought Joe was cool since Raiders. Good to see you back Spaz.

[Randall]

Yeah, JP3 is more solidly structured than Lost World.

[Dan]

Funny, I just picked up the trilogy set on Blu Ray and am watching the first movie right now as I write.

The problem I've generally had with the third film was weak story, additional characters I particularly did not care about, and lack of reash ideas outside of the pteranodon scene (which I admit was quite a thriller). All shocking since Alexander Payne and Jim Taylor are credited for writing the screenplay.

It's not a knock against Johnston, but I feel as though he might have been rushed (particularly when the film had a 92 minute running time while the others were beyond two hours).

Obiviously it didn't help that they never had a finished script by the time filmming was completed.

[Ben]

Joe's had some bad luck picking up the pieces of other people's films. Spielberg was down for JP3 and then decided against it...Joe picked it up and, I think, ran with it. The same happened on Wolf Man, when Rob Cohen left the project through filming. Joe did what he could, but no-one could really save that movie!

I think JP3 is better than Lost World because it doesn't try to be anything more than a Jurassic Park movie. If you read the Lost World book it actually plays *much* more like JP3, a straight adventure yarn, but not a particularly good one. So you can see why they changed so much for the movie, but in that they opened up new logic problems. The biggest thing was changing the whole ending *not* for any logical reasons but simply because Spielberg wanted to get a dinosaur in a city before the following summer's Godzilla stomped along. That whole, non-sensical ending was in there just for that...not to make it a better movie but just to beat someone to the same idea (and, of course, Godzilla came first years ago anyway)!

JP3 was underbaked, and I often felt it was rushed through a bit like something that a Jurassic Park: The TV Series pilot might have resembled, but it didn't try and twist and turn the story too many times and has at least two great set-pieces in it. The Raptor hiding behind that water tank before it blinks is a great JP moment from any of the films.

But you guys really should check out October Sky!

[EricJ]

I think JP3 is better than Lost World because it doesn't try to be anything more than a Jurassic Park movie. If you read the Lost World book it actually plays *much* more like JP3, a straight adventure yarn, but not a particularly good one. So you can see why they changed so much for the movie, but in that they opened up new logic problems. The biggest thing was changing the whole ending *not* for any logical reasons but simply because Spielberg wanted to get a dinosaur in a city before the following summer's Godzilla stomped along. That whole, non-sensical ending was in there just for that...not to make it a better movie but just to beat someone to the same idea (and, of course, Godzilla came first years ago anyway)!

Think the whole "Godzilla" segment was made to placate fans of the first book, which ended with

raptors escaping onto the ship,

which made everyone want a book sequel in the first place, and may have been all that was left of the first pre-production memos.
Instead, we got Transformers 2 Syndrome: That particular disease where a director is put in charge of his own hit sequel, and thinks he's been given studio-funded carte-blanche to toss the franchise out the window and make vanity home movies about any personal quirk that springs to mind. (So, which was worse, the "Mikaela Spielberg's gymnastics" scene, "Schwarzenegger in King Lear", or the nyah-nyah shot at Dinosaur Bob Bakker?)

So, like Transformers 3 and Batman Forever wanted to be, JP3 was the Apology Sequel:
Back to formula, stay on the island, kick out the vanity director who abused his privilege, and bring back Sam Neill as first-film ambassador instead of the now unbearably whiny Jeff Goldblum.
And like Indy IV, it seemed "rushed" because they didn't know which of five scripts they were going to use. (Like various discarded Alien 3 scripts, the "Second Ice Age" plot would have been going too far off the rails for the studios, who preferred that the end product look like all the previous films.)

[Ben]

It's crazy how your mind works sometimes, Mr J.

Spielberg said in an interview that he changed the end of LW to accommodate the T-Rex in San Diego because he knew Roland Emmerich was about to do Godzilla in New York. He said something like "I couldn't let them get a dinosaur in a big city before we did, especially finding that out as we were making the movie" (meaning during production).

He also didn't "throw out" the book: both were developed alongside each other but separately. the filmmakers knew Chrichton's outline and characters, but he was writing the thing while they made the film so it could all come out at the same time.

JP3 wasn't an apology kind of thing, either. Spielberg was up to direct it and, as a co-producer obviously didn't "kick himself out", haha. Again, he's on record as saying that he didn't want to remake the same kind of film again and would rather someone else took it on to give it fresh eyes (and JP3 didn't "stay on the island"...it took place on the Site B that was set up in LW).

And Alien 3 really didn't look the previous films, but thanks for giving me a good laugh today!

[EricJ]

JP3 wasn't an apology kind of thing, either. Spielberg was up to direct it and, as a co-producer obviously didn't "kick himself out", haha. Again, he's on record as saying that he didn't want to remake the same kind of film again and would rather someone else took it on to give it fresh eyes (and JP3 didn't "stay on the island"...it took place on the Site B that was set up in LW).
And Alien 3 really didn't look the previous films, but thanks for giving me a good laugh today!

Spielberg KNOWS what an "apology sequel" is and why they're made; he directed the tame back-to-formula Indy/Last Crusade after Temple of Doom, after all.
LW was the biggest awaited sequel that year, and for the audience to mutiny that angrily that quickly, it wasn't because the franchise itself was losing popularity.

Even if he turned the reins over to Johnston, there was clearly the idea of making it the stylistic "first film followup" (and substitute TV pilot) that the second didn't become after the train wrecked so spectacularly.
But like Indy IV, JP3 did have years of abandoned concept that all got tossed into a blender: One plot involving "New lab-mutation dinosaurs" was reduced to a subplot so invisible you'll miss it if you blink, the plot about "Second Ice Age, dinos on top, humans in shelters" was "experimental" but way off budget and track, so they settled for highlights from all the abandoned script ideas. (Eg., "Wait, we still haven't done the pterodactyls yet!") Even Crichton was hired for a plot idea and gave up.
And like Crystal Skull, it became "Whatever, at least we said we'd do one eventually!"

[spaz]

i was an animator on jumanji of which joe directed. it was a peculiar film sadly shot in the over-cast climate of Vancouver making compositing scripts difficult. what i found with joe is that he is a nice guy. experienced. not a prick like the self-proclaimed ILM elite. joe successfully made the transition from vfx and artist to director. he is honest. i was very happy to see his adaption of Captain America. next to Iron Man, it was the best adaption to a Marvel comic i had seen. sadly , Spielberg will force him to homogenize his vision of j4. never trust a director a> from California b> who has never traveled to another country c> has a weak hand shake and d> has never has his nose broke. joe is a tough guy and fair.

spaz

[Macaluso]

The Lost World owns, sorry for your hilariously wrong opinion ben

jumanji also owns

[Bill1978]

I'm with Ben in regards to the final parts of The Lost World. I enjoy the movie until those damn T-Rex's are bought to San Diego. It just seems totally and utterly unrealistic. And it is so jarring for what I was just watching before.

Having said that, as a mini-movie it is quite enjoyable and may have worked as a full movie, but it does feel like a last minute addition plot wise.

[Ben]

I didn't say I didn't enjoy The Lost World, I just said I didn't think it was the best JP movie. The T-Rex sequence in San Diego is perhaps my most favorite bit in there, actually, even though it was a last minute switcheroo. It doesn't make sense, but seeing ol' Rexy roar up at the skyline like that is pretty cool.

LW just didn't meet my expectations, though, for a JP sequel. I didn't think III did either, for the most part, but it had more JP moments than LW did for me. Both films struggle in their own ways to match the first film.

But you're right, Mac. Jumanji does, also, own.

Ludicrous that they're looking at a remake (and of Little Shop Of Horrors, and All Of Me)!