Tangled (formerly Rapunzel)

[Dusterian]

I wanna see Tangled as soon as I can Disney Pictures.

ShyViolet, you remind me of those people who say there's no original stories in the world, that everything comes from previous stories. I know that a lot of people think that's just plain true, and can explain why, but I am someone who will always believe that somehow, we still can make original stories, maybe if we stop trying to think of ways they are the same as previous ones.

And that goes for thinking so many stories are the same as previous fairy tales!

Also, Disney based their version of Cinderella on the Perrault version of the fairy tale, even though a little Grimm's was obviously mixed on, it was still based mainly on Perrault's and credited to him, and he had a happier, un-grim story. In fact, the French fairy tales, which were published before the Grimm's and pretty much started the literary genre of the fairy tale, were much nicer and more romantic than the Grimm's versions. They were more what we think of when we think of fairy tales.

Ben, since almost any underdog, or any romance, can be called a "Cinderella story" or "a fairy tale", it's really losing it's meaning. This is why I don't like using the term fairy tale so liberally, as I already said!

[EricJ]

Pretty Woman as fairytale.
Discuss.

(Okay--"Corporate fraud".
It's cutesy 80's George Bernard Shaw rewrite through and through, right down to the original deleted script ending--Until Disney gets their acquisition hands on it, and all of a sudden "Cinderella" starts popping up in the next dialogue rewrite like cropsy...Or I take it that was the wink?)

[ShyViolet]

Pretty Woman as fairytale.
Discuss.

(Okay--"Corporate fraud".
It's cutesy 80's George Bernard Shaw rewrite through and through, right down to the original deleted script ending--Until Disney gets their acquisition hands on it, and all of a sudden "Cinderella" starts popping up in the next dialogue rewrite like cropsy...Or I take it that was the wink?)

Originally it was totally different though. When Disney got it it was called "3000" and was MUCH darker. Vivian was actually a drug user and snorts cocaine in one scene. Yes, it had shades of My Fair Lady as part of it but that was what Disney chose to re-sculpt it as--that and Cinderella.

Vivian gets beautiful new clothes and a handsome prince who rescues her, and is mocked by richer more powerful people--very Cinderella-like. But the whole learning to talk/act like a lady is pure Pygmalian/My Fair Lady. (Pygmalian was the name of the actual play.)

Also, the two mean ladies in the store were like the wicked stepsisters. The hotel mananger was actually kind of like the fairy godmother except he was a guy, as was Richard Gere's character. The nice lady who helped Vivan dress up also fit that role.

Also, Disney based their version of Cinderella on the Perrault version of the fairy tale, even though a little Grimm's was obviously mixed on, it was still based mainly on Perrault's and credited to him, and he had a happier, un-grim story. In fact, the French fairy tales, which were published before the Grimm's and pretty much started the literary genre of the fairy tale, were much nicer and more romantic than the Grimm's versions. They were more what we think of when we think of fairy tales.

True, there was much more Perrault than Grimm there, but so much of it is Disney. The mice helping Cinderella and making her a dress was never in the story (it actually kind of reminds me of the elves and the shoemaker), nor was the Fairy Godmother turning the mice and Cinderella's dog into the stagecoach hands, or Lucifer the mean cat. The little subplot of the prince's dad wanting him to pick a bride was only very slightly in the original tale I think--Disney expanded on it much more. And of course the awesome heart-stopping climax of Cinderella locked in her room by the wicked stepmom was Disney too. Cinders is in my opinion one of the most purely Disney films that's ever come out, which is why so many people love it. (the two sisters tearing up her dress is probably one of the most wrenching scenes in any Disney film, right up there with Lampwick's transformation.)

The original story(s) of Cinderella were great and all but Disney truly made it TUG on your heart. Ditto with the Seven Dwarfs and Sleeping Beauty. There were actually seven fairies in the original Beauty story and as far as I can remember I don't think they raised her from a little girl, plus the Dwarfs' unique names and personalities were Disney's invention too. Disney's fairy tales are almost completely their own IMHO, they certainly owe a lot to their source material but 100s of years from now I'll bet they'll be looked at as canon/classics too.

[Dusterian]

Yes, that's true ShyViolet, Disney has it's own way of doing everything, they aren't just Grimm, they aren't just Barrie, they aren't just fairy tales.

Just to inform, the mice and birds helping Cinderella is actually very much from the Grimm's. Many birds helped Cinderella all through that version, including the chores she needed to go to the ball. However, they also were partly inspired by Beatrix Potter's story of mice who help a tailor finish a waistcoat when he saves them from a cat!

But the fairy godmother certainly turned the mice into horses in the original story and didn't turn any of them into the coach hands.

Aurora being raised and protected by the fairies in the cottage in the woods is very much like the second half of the Perrault version of the tale when the princess' children are hidden from the prince's ogress mother (!) in a cottage in the woods, with the palace chef. I always thought itwas taken from Snow White being hidden in her cottage, lol.

[Whippet Angel]

Lovely pic, Elioli!

I saw the film today and I loved it! My boyfriend (who generally HATES musicals) really enjoyed it as well.

[ELIOLI]

Thanks!
And the movie was absolutely awesome! my mom loved it as well!
I had a tear or two

[droosan]

I saw Tangled last night (so, I can finally come back into this thread -- which I'd been actively avoiding, for the past few weeks).

I plan to see it again, later today .. so (obviously) I loved it!


I do think someone high-up at Disney should 'bop' the marketing division on their heads with a frying pan, though. It's a much better movie -- and has much more of a 'classic Disney'-feel -- than the 'DreamWorks-esque' romp which the trailers and commercials portray.

QUICK -- re-hide this, unless you don't mind SPOILERS!!

The songs didn't feel nearly as 'forced' as they had in The Princess and the Frog .. Mother Gothel's refrain was chilling, and the thugs' song was a surprisingly fun show-stopper!

Rapunzel is a fantastic character..! I loved her 'mood-swings' upon leaving the tower, her resourcefulness at the Snuggly Duckling and the dam fight, and especially her tormented realization of just how thoroughly Mother Gothel had 'used' her.

For a brief moment, I'd allowed myself to believe that Flynn had literally sacrificed himself to save Rapunzel .. and I daresay it might have been a stronger ending, if he had (after all, the death of a sidekick had been one of the 'standout' moments in PatF). But -- since that apparently couldn't have happened -- perhaps Rapunzel could have discovered a single strand of uncut hair to heal him with. The 'magic tear' has no set-up, and did feel 'forced'.

What a beautiful, classic Disney-villain-death-scene for Mother Gothel, though!

[GeorgeC]

I've gotta admit that I haven't seen a Disney brand animated film in theaters since Lilo & Stitch.

(EDIT: Actually now that I think about it, Brother Bear was the last animated Disney film I saw in theaters. That was about a year after Lilo & Stitch.)

Funnier yet, I've never seen a film with Mandy Moore in it, either... She just hasn't been in any film I'd care to see.

Tangled might be the first film to break these trends.

I've seen The Art of Tangled in a local bookstore and frankly I was more impressed by the development art in it than any other "Art of" book I've seen in a while...

There just might something to this film!

I'm a sucker for a good fairy tale. Nothing wrong with a good retelling, period, and nobody's done a good feature-length animated adaptation of this story, public domain or not.

[EricJ]

I've gotta admit that I haven't seen a Disney brand animated film in theaters since Lilo & Stitch.

Sooo...you've missed "Treasure Planet", "Home on the Range" (just watch it, smartaleck, or do we have to bring out the $20 bets?), "Meet the Robinsons", "Bolt" and "Princess & the Frog", then, or just caught them on video?

(Yeah, I remember the Lilo Wars back in '02--Almost ten years now, isn't it?
It was kind of like the Bush administration, back then, during the last Eisner days; we thought there'd never be any way out of it, so being cranky about it and throwing pipe bombs at City Hall seemed cool. )

[ELIOLI]

interesting

[Dusterian]

Oh ya, forgot to say, that is an excellent, beautiful, gorgeous piece Elioli! But you and who else made it?

I think I wish the movie looked a little more like that, but I haven't seen it. I will be seeing it as soon as possible, though, I'm so beyond excited, hopefully tomorrow!

EricJ, what Lilo wars?

[ELIOLI]

me and my sis (twins, and explains the name) did it. thanks.

[EricJ]

b]EricJ[/b], what Lilo wars?

Oh, you remember, back when we were all getting ready to kick Eisner out on his hinder and canonize Roy Disney as a saint?
And part of that frustration boiling to a head was that we said "No more icky normal Disney films!...We want them all like Lilo & Stitch, for the next twenty years!"
(Of course, back then, that meant two different things: Before the movie came out, and all we had were the teaser trailers to go on, everyone thought it would be a movie about Stitch crashing other classic Disney films--"Yeah, see, they're going deconstructionist on their own movies!...Even they agree the style is fading, and Shrek humor is going to take over!"
Then after, when we saw the movie, that switched to "Yeah, we want more weird and twisted characters, that only we understand, not those icky princesses!")

And so, as if it wasn't bad enough that Treasure Planet showed up and tried to look like a normal Disney film--run out of town!...Oh, wait, it flopped anyway, that'll show em!...
We had Home on the Range come out after it'd "already been agreed upon" that Disney Was Dead, so why were they still forcing movies on us?--And stupid cartoony ones that looked like cheap Disney Channel ones, at that! Why do they just not lay down and die, already??
(And although the release timing made sure that nobody ever talks about HotR without mentioning "The Alamo", it just seemed to symbolically fit in with the arguments.)

...Wasn't it silly back then?

[droosan]

I've seen Tangled twice already .. and will likely see it a third time, before the weekend is out; so, I'll have done my part to help out its opening box-office..!

I was pleasantly surprised to discover that Amazon.com is selling the Tangled mp3 soundtrack album for just US$3.99 .. I'm not sure how long that deal will last (nor whether it even applies outside the U.S.) .. but it definitely helped to take some of the 'sting' out of that US$16 '3D' movie ticket price.

[Macaluso]

Wow, Tangled really did well this weekend so far. That makes me really happy that people noticed it.