Tangled (formerly Rapunzel)

[ShyViolet]

It's true, I haven't; I was just going by what had been posted earlier. When I wrote that I meant to say: "early reports seem to indicate that Tangled could have been told in a less by-the-numbers way than it was," but I wrote it quickly and forgot to add that part.

Like I said, I'm still very much looking forward to it. I'm sure there is more to it than the trailers show but one thing that is safe to say (in my opinion) is that despite its merits the film simply doesn't contain the sheer wonder/imagination of a film like Up, and that being contained that way held it back from being a better film.

[Dusterian]

One: Did Pixar really say that they want to bring back the feeling of classic Disney to Pixar films? If this is true...why? Why don't they make their own kind of "Pixar feeling" and leave the Disney feeling to...Disney? Even if they must help Disney make that feeling, under Lasseter.

Two: Please do not say Wall-E and Up were fairy tales. We cannot just call almost any kind of movie a fairy tale. Wall-E could be a fairy tale if that robot was brought to life by a magical blue fairy but since he wasn't I don't know what kind of movie magic granted him a soul and it's no fairy tale.

Three: So Disney announces they still want to make fairy tales. Good. But they changed the name of their current fairy tale and are trying to make it seem like it's not the original fairy tale. WTF.

[Dacey]

That's why it SUCKS that DreamWorks Animation made "How to Train Your Dragon," Dust. Because, you know, people expect DreamWorks to make movies with pop culture references and hip songs, not classicly told epic stories. How DARE DreamWorks go against what people think they always do!

[EricJ]

Three: So Disney announces they still want to make fairy tales. Good. But they changed the name of their current fairy tale and are trying to make it seem like it's not the original fairy tale. WTF.

And two other observations from the TAG:
1) "Boy, good thing Disney 'isn't doing anymore fairytales'"...Considering they've done exactly TWO in the last 18 years (not counting Tangled), both from the same directors, one a smash hit and the other that was well received but had a bad break of dubious origin,
and
2) Um, not to quibble story-source details, but since when is Rapunzel a "princess"?
(She might be in this version, but go on, look it up... )

[ShyViolet]

Two: Please do not say Wall-E and Up were fairy tales. We cannot just call almost any kind of movie a fairy tale. Wall-E could be a fairy tale if that robot was brought to life by a magical blue fairy but since he wasn't I don't know what kind of movie magic granted him a soul and it's no fairy tale.

Fairy tales don't necessarily have to have magic or fairies in them though. The "magical" feeling can be emotional, love-inspired, heroic, adventurous, etc...It's really the happy ending, the triumph of hope over adversity, that gives movies (particularly Pixar's) the feeling of a Tale. Think of the love scenes between WALL-E and Eve and how much they resembled a prince and princess falling in love. (and their reunion at the end the classic happy ending, which basically was WALL-E finding his soul.) Think of Carl Fredrickson and Russell setting out on an all but magical adventure to Paradise Falls: it almost had the feel of a myth or fable and the villain certainly reflected classic Disney villains of the past.

It's not necessarily the princess/magic aspect but the FEEL of something mythical and timeless. Best example: Why do you think the first words of Oliver and Company were: "Once upon a Time in New York City"? It wasn't an update or satire of a fairy tale, but simply a Disney animated movie: and they all were fairy tales: Lion King, Aladdin, Beauty and Beast, The Great Mouse Detective, because that's how they felt. It doesn't matter that Oliver was based on Dickens and TGMD was based on Basil on Baker Street: once they became Disney films, they were fairy tales for a modern age. And not updates: just great stories. Just Disney movies.

[Dusterian]

EricJ, what was the fairy tale that wasn't Tangled and wasn't The Princess and the Frog?

ShyViolet, I think that is sweet, and I can see how that is an opinion, so you're entitled to it.

However, I think that allows to say that almost any good heartwarming family movie or animated movie could be a fairy tale, which is not the case.

I don't like the term fairy tale being applied so liberally. I wish you wouldn't. Things like Peter Pan or Pinocchio I would call fairy tales, but if you want to use a term for the kind of things you're describing...I don't know, I wish I could think of a better term.

[EricJ]

EricJ, what was the fairy tale that wasn't Tangled and wasn't The Princess and the Frog?.

(Think back--What Disney classics have we had since "Aladdin"?:
"Well, there was Lion King, with the animals in...Africa...
Oh, and there was Pocahontas, she was a...real-life figure, but Mulan, she was...supposedly a real-life figure too--Okay, okay, what about Hunchback, that was a.......book." )

[ShyViolet]

I don't like the term fairy tale being applied so liberally. I wish you wouldn't. Things like Peter Pan or Pinocchio I would call fairy tales, but if you want to use a term for the kind of things you're describing...I don't know, I wish I could think of a better term.

I get what you're saying Dusterian, and I didn't mean anything could be a fairy tale, just trying to say that it's not completely cut-and-dried as all that, especially with Disney. Think of it this way: in the strictest sense of the word, neither Pinocchio or Peter Pan are fairy tales. Pinocchio was written by Carlo Collodi in the late 19th century in serial form for a magazine; Peter Pan was a play and then a book by JM Barrie, also written in the 19th century. So neither fits the classic definition of fairy tale because they weren't myths/legends like Cinderella or Snow White, where the original author is unknown and the stories took on many cultural forms. Both were written and then published. When did they really become fairy tales in people's minds? When Disney made them into films, of course.

Ditto the Little Mermaid--a book written by Hans Christian Anderson, not a fairy tale. The Lion King was part Hamlet, part the Prodigal Son story, as well as other influences (other Disney films for one: what is Scar but another wicked Step-parent?) Pocahontas, not a fairy tale of course, but it was given that magical sense in the best possible way. (an enchanted tree/forest was one factor)

Even Cinderella, Beauty and the Beast, Snow White, and Sleeping Beauty are in many ways quite different from their source material (no names for the Dwarfs, etc...) But most people would agree that their Disney films are fairy tale films, because of the feelings and messages they conveyed: love and heroism and magic and adventure. Little Mermaid is just as much a Disney fairy tale as Snow White, Pinnochio just as much as Little Mermaid, and WALL-E just as much as Pinocchio. IMHO I feel they all come from the same place.

[Bill1978]

I'm happy to accept WALL*E as a modern day version of a fairy tale, but there is no way that Up is anything more than an adventure story.

I think though fairytales tend to have an element of myth and magic thrown in AND is usually based around a kid or teenager. Definitely helps if royalty and an evil step mother is involved. And also helps if it has a European feel about the setting.

I think if the story can still work with the words 'Once upon a time in a faraway land, there once was...' it could be a fairytale. This pretty much rules out modern stuff as true fairytales. And yes I know under this term WALL*E is ruled out.

I also think it helps if the story is put into a children's book of fairytales. Which what makes The Little Mermaid more of a fairytale than Pinocchio or Peter Pan.

[Ben]

I would have said WALL-E is actually more of a allegorical parable, since it teaches as the story unfolds. In a fairytale, the story usually centers on a downtrodden character, or one led into an unfortunate or misguided situation, doing something about it. Yes, you could make that assumption about WALL-E himself, but the film is more about WALL-E being the catalyst in opening up others' eyes to the truth.

It's also important to remember that a fairytale isn't a genre or a medium. It's an expression to describe something that is fantastical, and probably untrue, in nature, originally as a term for the stories that featured "fairies" such as Sleeping Beauty and Cinderella. That being the case, you can use it both ways: as a literal way to describe the magical elements of Peter Pan, Pinocchio and others, or in the wider-use metaphorical usage ("William and Kate's Fairytale Wedding", etc) where the phrasing indicates a mood or similar feeling.

It's only really since Disney came along and gave them all happy endings that the word "fairytale" has come to mean what it does today: princes and princesses, fairies and magic and happy endings...but it's really more than that. I wouldn't place all of the Disney animated films in this bracket, but there's a lot of crossover. I mean, Aladdin isn't a fairytale, and yet it is...

[Dusterian]

I think I agree with what has lately been said about this fairy tale subject, coupled with what I said.

So in the end I'm only going to feel certain films are fairy tales, as Disney even just said they were still going to do them so obviously even they have a sense of what is a fairy tale and how all their films aren't fairy tales.

Oh, and ShyViolet, I actually thought The Little Mermaid was part of Hans Christian Anderson's fairy tale collection, but either way I'm pretty sure it's still a fairy tale as he intended to be an author of fairy tales.

Also, Wall-E's lack of saying what exactly gave him a soul/life, or the question of if we are watching artificial robot feelings, really bugs me, so I can not label that a fairy tale unless I see some Blue Fairy or angel from Heaven granting him real human-life life and feelings...until then I'll just believe divine intervention gave him and Eve souls and we never saw it.

[DisneyPictures]

Hey guys, just reminding everyone that Tangled comes out tomorrow. A few advanced reviews have surfaced.

You can check one out right here:
http://www.hitfix.com/blogs/motion-capt ... -animation

Anyone planning on seeing it opening night?

[ELIOLI]

We are! Very much looking forward to it. And some of those reviews..who cares..ha!
Here is some art we did for the movie! (fanart)
Ok..I do care about some of those rotten reviews..but Armond White... and... that one guy who based it off his SON..come on now. But anyway..
We both worked on it.


Uploaded with ImageShack.us

[ShyViolet]

I'm happy to accept WALL*E as a modern day version of a fairy tale, but there is no way that Up is anything more than an adventure story.

True, Up is most certainly an adventure story but honestly I think pretty much all adventure stories come from fairy tales (folk tales) as well as romance stories of princesses and magic and heroism from the middle ages as well as before. (romantic meaning adventure not specifically love; nor Romantic as in nature, feeling, etc...from the 19th century).

Carl Fredrickson's relationship with Russell and how he eventually comes to care for him is picaresque: episodic adventures that add up to a larger meaning. The two characters face dangers and rewards that echo many famous stories (Little Red Riding Hood, Hansel and Gretal--Carl even takes Russell into the forest hoping to eventually get rid of him). Like Ben said it's not always a specific model but a genuine feeling/fantastic events/narrative. Carl faces obstacles and choices and acts on what are his gradually changing feelings. He mourns the love of his life but gains an adopted son/grandson to recapture his lost dreams. Thus his narrative/journey is completed, as is often the case in fairy tales.

It's only really since Disney came along and gave them all happy endings that the word "fairytale" has come to mean what it does today: princes and princesses, fairies and magic and happy endings...but it's really more than that. I wouldn't place all of the Disney animated films in this bracket, but there's a lot of crossover. I mean, Aladdin isn't a fairytale, and yet it is...

Yes, exactly, plus for centuries fairy tales were often violent, disturbing and had endings that were often more mixed than "happy." Not too many people would call Disney remaking the scary endings of Grimm stories (particularly the Cinderella version) a "return to fairy tales," although technically that's what it would be.

[Ben]

Pretty Woman as fairytale.

Discuss.