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Post by ShyViolet » August 24th, 2008, 2:54 am

I can't think of another incarnation of the character that missed the mark as badly as Superman Returns, as much as it tried to emulate the Reeve films.
To me that was the strangest and most misguided aspect of SR--and, I think, the real reason that so many fans despise it. It DOES try to emulate the Reeve films--but in the opposite way. It directly takes plot devices/themes from Superman the Movie and turns them completely on their head. It's not a re-make of STM--it's the doppelganger.

It takes everything the first film tried to say about how much Clark/Kal'El loved Earth and the Earthlings he grew up with and turns it inside out. Case in point:
1.) Rather than the colorful, vibrant Smallville scenes in STM that establish Clark as having an extremely strong relationship with his adopted parents, there's a flashback to Clark, all alone, discovering his powers. Then flash-forward to Clark, all alone, on the farm. Oh, and his mother telling him: "Even if you are the last, you're not alone." Uh-huh. The whole message of the film is that Kal'El IS alone and will always remain so.

2.) The fortress of solitude scenes in STM, where Clark learns who he is, are more or less parodied in SR when Lex, Kitty and the other henchman arrive there and are somehow able to jump-start the crystals and Jor'El's presence. Kitty: "Can he see us?" Lex: "No, he's dead." The glib, mocking tone here more or less sums up the film's attitude not only towards the original Superman film but the Superman mythos in general.

3.) Kal'El's visit to Lois' penthouse in STM is re-created in SR but takes all the wondrous, magical aspects of the original scene and replaces them with a cold, cynical feel that sucks all the humor and warmth from the Donner version. STM Supes: "You really shouldn't smoke, Ms. Lane." SR Supes doesn't bother and just snuffs out her cigarrette like the glorified stalker he is in this film. Their flight together has a detached feel which is full of contempt for the scene it's based on. Lois and the entire Earth forgot Superman. There's no reason why he should love her or anyone else.

4.) Instead of putting Lex Luthor to rights in SR the way STM Supes did, SR Supes is nearly beaten to death by Lex and his henchman, stabbed by a shard of Kryptonite and then more or less pushed off a cliff to drown. And the only reason SR Supes confronts Lex in the first place is because "You have something that belongs to me," meaning that Lex stole his crystals/Jor-El's message. That's it. There's never any mention of Lex's schemes, his putting Lois and the rest of the world in danger, or even Lex's having escaped from prison. This is by far the weakest, most cynical, most anticlimactic resolution in a "superhero" film in the entire history of that genre.

5.) The misogyny that's present throughout the entire film. Women are either peripheral, unlikable or the target of cruel jabs. There's Lex's benefactor/victim Gertrude...there's Lois Lane who's pretty much a b**** throughout the whole movie, there's brainless Kitty (and yes, I know she's based on Miss Tessmacher but as far as I can recall there were no scenes of Miss Tessmacher's suffering at the hands of Lex being played for laughs) who despite being saved by Superman does nothing when he's trapped by Lex.

6.) Probably the final nail in the coffin is the scene of Kal'El being left to drown and Jor'El's words: "Even though you have been raised as an Earthling you are not one of them..." hitting home the message "Look, Kal'El is left to die and no one cares". Jor-El's words were repeated in one of the final scenes of STM, too, they were: "You are forbidden to interfere..." in earthly matters. That was right before Supes literally moved Heaven and Earth so he could save Lois Lane's life. Once again, SR takes the Lois/Superman relationship and rips it to pieces. Just in case there's any doubt, the SR scene takes place right before Lois saves Kal'El's life by jumping in the ocean...but only because his alien son spotted him there in the first place. After Kal'El is resuscitated back to life, (but only before he dies again ten minutes later) he once more valiantly sacrifices himself for Lois, Richard, Jason, and everyone else who couldn't care less that he's about to die for them.

7.) These are some reasons why fans hated SR, but also why many fans, viewers and critics didn't pick up on the filmmaker's contempt for the character mythos. In many ways the film feels like a re-make of STM, because so many scenes/lines are "repeated" in the 2006 version. But this is anything but a "fan-film". :? As said earlier, a much better definition would be "parody."
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Post by Randall » August 24th, 2008, 10:30 am

Well put!!

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Post by Once Upon A Dream » August 24th, 2008, 1:40 pm

I see your point.
Still,I thought of comparing them (And I think I have seen the films,just don't remember them).
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Post by eddievalient » August 24th, 2008, 6:52 pm

Randall, you imply that to like this movie is somehow a bad thing. I love STM and I also really like SR. I have no problem with that, why does everyone else seem to? Superman is just like Batman in that there have been so many different takes on the character over the years that no one take is any more or less valid than any other. Smallville, for instance, is miles away from any other interpretation of Supes, but does that make it bad? No, only different, just like SR. It may not be your Superman, but it was Bryan Singer's (and, by the same logic, WB's as well since they had to have read the screenplay before they greenlit it). This announcement only means that they're backpedaling like Marvel did with the Hulk. It's aggravating, though, that this'll cement it in the books as a bad movie when it's totally not.
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Post by Ben » August 24th, 2008, 7:27 pm

Yes, it is. It is rotten and bad and evil.

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Post by Randall » August 24th, 2008, 11:58 pm

I respect anyone's opinion, but I don't always understand it. :) I'm glad for anyone that could enjoy SR, and in fact I liked parts of it; but this Superman bore little resemblance to any other I've seen before, and the premise still doesn't make any sense to me. (Can anyone tell me why he left Earth for five years? Anyone? And I mean a reason that makes sense.)

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Post by Ben » August 25th, 2008, 8:38 am

Well, like, because they found what could have been remnants of his home world, like, yeah? With people on it, and stuff.

Oh no...wait, if there might have been <I>survivors</I> then that <I>might</I> have made sense...

Nope. Sorry Rand. Supes left us in the lurch for no reason at all.

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Post by ShyViolet » August 25th, 2008, 9:31 pm

Well put!!
Thanks Randall! :)


I forgot to mention that there's also this weird thing with the little kid...it seems like there's quite a few moments where you expect, as cheesy as it would be, for the little kid to use his super powers to save Lois/Richard after the first time (or at least what we assume is the first time) he discovers them. And, knowing that we're expecting it, the movie pulls back and has him do nothing at all.

1.) Lois and Jason trapped in that galley thing or whatever it was at the bottom of the door. He just says: "I'm sorry." It's never made clear whether or not he's sorry for using his powers before or sorry that he can't use them now.

2.) Right before Richard breaks in and "rescues" them (since nothing he tries in this area seems to turn out successfully) Jason tries to open the handle, and then it turns out it's Richard on the other side who opened it--once more the movie holds out the possiblity that Jason will be "super" and then rescinds it.

3.) When Lois, Jason and Richard are trapped and almost about to drown in the bottom of the boat, Jason pushes on the window, but nothing happens. Again, the audience's hopes that the kid will use his powers for good are dashed.

These instances are significant because they very much echo Kal'El's "situation", the kid has powers but they're never going to make any kind of difference and they're never going to do him any good. Like Kal'El tells the little boy in his bedroom: "You'll be different....sometimes, you'll feel like an outcast." Again, the theme of being an outcast/alien is transferred to the son--the son very much "becomes the father" in this case, since the son is inheriting his father's curse of being trapped on a planet full of people who don't care about him. Jason is another extension of the movie's message: Superman is an alien, Superman is alone, Superman is sacrificing himself for no good reason. And in the end it doesn't matter if he's alive or dead.

Case in point: The twin newspaper headlines: "Superman is Dead." and "Superman Lives." In the end it doesn't matter which is true--Superman has no place on earth, and "the world does not need Superman," or, more accurately, doesn't deserve him.
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Post by ShyViolet » October 5th, 2008, 7:00 pm

According to IGN, Kevin Spacey is back as Lex:

http://movies.ign.com/articles/915/915655p1.html
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Post by Ben » October 5th, 2008, 7:24 pm

Dr Evil back again? Ugh...

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Post by Randall » October 5th, 2008, 9:33 pm

I'm very suspect of the writer's info. I didn't really mind Spacey in the role, but I expect Warner to do a total reboot.

Bring on Brainiac!

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Post by ShyViolet » October 13th, 2008, 12:11 am

Brandon Routh might be back as well:


http://www.comicmix.com/news/2008/10/10 ... -superman/
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Post by Meg » October 13th, 2008, 9:10 am

Agh! No! :(

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Post by Ben » October 13th, 2008, 2:55 pm

Next up: all is forgiven and WB give Bryan "hey, the plan was always to make the second one <I>better</I>" Singer another chance...

Gosh darn it! :(

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Post by ShyViolet » October 15th, 2008, 8:44 pm

Interesting Donner interview:

He says he enjoyed SR and that "Singer nailed it" but then there's another quote that doesn't really support that:

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/herocom ... onner.html
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