Batman Begins

[Ben]

<I>Hopefully</I>...

[ShyViolet]

I think having the Joker and Two-Face COULD be OK, as long as they have Joker as the main villain and draw parallels between him and Two-Face ("some men just want to watch the world burn") and have a crisp, concise story without going into too many directions (sound familiar, Sam Raimi? j/k)

Both the Joker and Two face are similar in certain ways and I think this might make the story more interesting, as Two-Face does in some ways struggle against the full-blown madness inside him (the coin flips and all) while the Joker just embraces it.

From the Wizard World quote:

He doesn't look like the classic Joker in any way shape or form, and from what I can tell he has visable makeup lines, so I am guessing whatever causes his "Transformation" in this one will be nothing like any other telling of the joker.

I was also thinking about this. I know there are different theories as to the Joker's transformation but are they really going to deviate from the "fell into a tank of acid" story? I could be confused, but didn't that come from the comic originally (if perhaps not in the same fashion as the '89 film)? Wasn't it referenced in the Killing Joke?

The makeup (chemicals?) he wears as well as those scars on the sides of his mouth seem to point to the fact that he may indeed have "cut his cheeks to make his smile wider" as was theorized in earlier posts, and perhaps this Joker is portrayed as having more "say" in becoming the Joker than earlier versions. Hmmm.....I think this might be interesting, but a real break from the past.

[ShyViolet]

The Dark Knight Teaser on quicktime: (can download for free onto hard drive with itunes)

http://www.apple.com/trailers/wb/thedarkknight/

[ShyViolet]

Heath on playing the Joker!!


http://batman-on-film.com/TDK_heath-led ... 16-07.html

[Ben]

Notice his white face make-up is not all skin covering, like Joker Jack's was. He's still normal skin colored here, under his chin and around the hair.

[ShyViolet]

Yeah, although I'm MEGA excited about this film....I'm a bit "uncertain" about that part... Nolan really seems to be wanting to distance himself from past Batman/Joker interpretations.

[Jeroen]

Nolan really seems to be wanting to distance himself from past Batman/Joker interpretations

Wich (in this case) is good, isn't it? Keeps things fresh and exciting.
Let us not forget that this is Nolans vision, not ours.

Besides, this is not the last time we will see the Joker on the big screen in our lifetime.
The film franchise will without a doubt go back to its more standard comic book roots in upcoming interpretations 10 or 20 years from now wich will certainly feature the Joker again in a probably more traditional interpretation.

[ShyViolet]

Wich (in this case) is good, isn't it? Keeps things fresh and exciting.
Let us not forget that this is Nolans vision, not our

Don't get me wrong, I think it's great, but you don't want to get TOO far from the comic/mythos--this is supposed to be also a "return" to Batman's origins.

[GeorgeC]

Wich (in this case) is good, isn't it? Keeps things fresh and exciting.
Let us not forget that this is Nolans vision, not our

Don't get me wrong, I think it's great, but you don't want to get TOO far from the comic/mythos--this is supposed to be also a "return" to Batman's origins.

Hah!

Still dressing a character in black so that it'll be impossible for the audience to see how BAD sculpted muscular black plastic looks (in POOR lighting) after another 20 years has passed? Designing a Batmobile that looks like it belongs more in a Monster Truck rally than a Batcave?

I gave up on the chances of there being a good Batman live-action feature after I saw the designs for Batman Begins. Saw snatches of the film itself at work on a coworker's portable DVD player and I can honestly say my initial impressions were justified. Just a bad film that might as well have been another typical action film -- something Jean Claude Van Damme or Steven Segal might have made 15 years ago.

The character just can't be done justice in live-action with the current Hollywood mentality.

The 1990s animated series was a chance fluke of quality that won't repeat itself for another 20 years at least (in animation) I'd wager.

As for as live-action goes -- as long as Hollywood insists on reinventing every darn thing on its own terms and not respecting the source material and keeps on doing stunt-casting to raise box-office receipts --, well then I guess Superman: The Movie and the second Spider-Man are going to remain about the only two live-action superhero films I give a darn about that are actually good movies aside from the superhero aspects that were left intact.

People give the studios too much of a pass on changes just for the sake of changes. They're still stuck in this mentality "well if they CHANGE stuff from the comics maybe MORE people WILL accept it" and accept films that might as well have been made for TV for all the quality there is in the resulting movies. It goes beyond the superficial costume changes, btw... Basic motivations and ethos like "DON'T kill people weaker than you or who pose NO THREAT to the planet-at-large" are being tossed out the window in favor of a Dirty Harry/Death Wish revenge vendetta. I'm still amazed people think Batman Begins, Superman Returns, Spidey 3, and ANY of the X-Men films were actually good movies!

[Daniel]

Aside from a few shortcomings, I do consider Batman Begins a good movie.

And even though I'm not a fan of X-Men, (comics or movies) I've heard a lot of good feedback on all three films. The third one a little less.

[Ben]

How about Batman Returns, George? Burton's Bats/Cats/Penguin second one. I'd put that in there with the first Superman and second Raimi Spidey flick.

I totally agree on Bats Begins...uninspired rehash with nothing new to say. I do have much better hopes for The Dark Knight, from what I've heard from friends on the set. But my personal jury is still out on whether Bale is actually right in the role.

[EricJ]

I totally agree on Bats Begins...uninspired rehash with nothing new to say. I do have much better hopes for The Dark Knight, from what I've heard from friends on the set. But my personal jury is still out on whether Bale is actually right in the role.

Thought "Begins" looked good, I was willing to accept Warner's Schumacher-apology, and Michael Caine singlehandedly rose to Alfred's defense.

My only complaint came from Alec Baldwin in "The Shadow" being one of my guilty-pleasure favorites, and BB's "Rich no-future slacker abducted for training by secret Tibetan order, and must later prevent his old evil lama-mate's world-domination" plot seemed eerily familiar:
When Liam Neeson shows back up after many years, I kept waiting for Bale to say "So, what brings you to the Big Apple?"

[Ben]

That Shadow movie would have to be a guilty pleasure! It was a mess!

Begins was full of cliches and an "uninspired rehash" as I said. Caine was good, but he's so used to doing these kinds of roles in his sleep I missed the true emotional investment he brings when his heart is really in it.

[ShyViolet]

That's so cool that you made that Shadow connection, EricJ. It makes a lot of sense.

Also, yeah, Begins needed a much stronger villain. (Scarecrow, like Venom in SM3, should have been the whole show. Why do all these filmmakers always fall in love with the LAME villain? )

[EricJ]

That's so cool that you made that Shadow connection, EricJ. It makes a lot of sense.

Also, yeah, Begins needed a much stronger villain. (Scarecrow, like Venom in SM3, should have been the whole show. Why do all these filmmakers always fall in love with the LAME villain? )

Actually, Scarecrow was some Warner DNA traces left over from that mythical Joel Schumacher Batman V that Warner spent eight years fighting over:

Originally, the B5 script was rumored for Jeff Goldblum as Scarecrow, Madonna as Harley Quinn, and Jeremy Irons as the Gentleman Ghost (with special fear-gas hallucinatory cameo by Jack Nicholson's Joker!)...
Until Warner Desperate Boardroom Alibi #4 of 7 For Why 'Batman & Robin' Flopped, Without Actually Having Seen the Movie ("Three villains must've confused the audience!") had the script downgraded to just the one villain...
But by that time, Warner finally reached Alibi #7, and the truth sank in.