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Like I said, we all know what NOT to get Ben for Christmas this year.
I will say, though, that while I really liked (heck, even loved) the film, I got so excited about it before it came out that once I saw the actual film, it felt a little "Anti-Climatic", unlike stuff like "King Kong" and "Spider-Man 2", where I left the theater and was like, "That rocked!".
And, to be fair, I only saw SR in the theater once, compared to three times I saw DMC on the big screen (I plan to watch both films a lot on DVD, though).
I will say, though, that while I really liked (heck, even loved) the film, I got so excited about it before it came out that once I saw the actual film, it felt a little "Anti-Climatic", unlike stuff like "King Kong" and "Spider-Man 2", where I left the theater and was like, "That rocked!".
And, to be fair, I only saw SR in the theater once, compared to three times I saw DMC on the big screen (I plan to watch both films a lot on DVD, though).
"Yesterday is history, tomorrow is a mystery, but today is a gift--that is why it's called the present."
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Yeah...that's kinda how I feel too WJ. It was nothing like those two other films; Kong and Spidey 2 had the feel of classic films, the kind that you remember long, long, long after you've seen them.I will say, though, that while I really liked (heck, even loved) the film, I got so excited about it before it came out that once I saw the actual film, it felt a little "Anti-Climatic", unlike stuff like "King Kong" and "Spider-Man 2", where I left the theater and was like, "That rocked!".
And even though on the whole I liked SR, I DID have problems with it, mainly the acting/casting of key roles, not counting Routh and Spacey.
I also have to agree with Ben that it really didn't feel like Singer put a whole lot into this; it kinda felt like he was half-there/half somewhere else.
And the picture definetely wasn't "tight" or character focused like X1 or X2, and GALAXIES away from The Usual Suspects.
But I do have to confess that....I loved PARTS of the Ottman score...not all of it, but certain sequences were amazing. (I think TUS, X2 and Apt Pupil are also awesome) But this was missing something--I don't know what is was, but it was important!
It was like diamonds shining through glass...if that makes any sense. I have the CD as well.
Also Ottman said that he wrote Lex Luthor a theme 'cause he never had one in the original films, but....I don't remember it at all, even after listening to the score.
And Kate Bosworth....ugh! Sandra Bullock would have been tons better. Even Kim Basinger made a more convincing journalist than her.
Not to take the femenist position again (I'm really NOT a femenist ) but I think PART of the reason that Lois was so subdued in this film (aside from Singer )was the extreme sexist attitudes that IMO are VERY prevalent in our time--I mean the early 21st century.
If Lois actually took the Margot Kidder route and acted fiesty and confident, it would have gone against the teenage/young male/Laguna-beach watching, MTV addicted (no offense to anyone here! ) demographic that execs want--SO many women nowadays on TV and the movies have to be anorexic thin, wear tight clothes that show how thin they are, faintly go through the motions of "disagreeing" with the male protagonist and then falling all over him at the end. (Not that that's what people want, that's just what the media seems to think they want right now.)
I'm sorry to say it but there is way more sexism on TV and the movies now than ten or even twenty years ago.
Kidder's Lois was a late 70's Lois, right at the end of the Me Decade and Women's Lib. Hatcher's Lois I could barely tolerate most of the time, but at least she had some of that 90's spunk, or at least the writers so fit to give her some for a while.
Bosworth barely has a character--she's just a concept, a blank slate that executives have pinned as a money-generator; whoever chose her (who knows if it even WAS Singer) just picked the latest It girl--he probably would have picked Nicole Ritchie if she was maybe three or four years older and brunette. (EDIT: Oh, Bosworth is blonde too...didn't know that. They probably would have picked Richie if they could. )
If Margot Kidder had tried out for Lois today (I mean if she'd been the age she was in 1977) they probably would have said that she's too "tough" and "intimdating". They probably would also have told her to lose like thirty or forty pounds--not that she needed to at all, since she was quite beautiful. But unfortunately just not anorexic enough.
Last edited by ShyViolet on October 31st, 2006, 8:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
You can’t just have your characters announce how they feel! That makes me feel angry!
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What about Anne HathewayShyViolet wrote: And Kate Bosworth....ugh! Sandra Bullock would have been tons better. Even Kim Basinger made a more convincing journalist than her.
I saw her in the The Devil Wears Prada and thought she was a great journalsit. Many critics agree, and say she wouldve been a better candadit.
I can't say, because I have yet to see SR but from previews, I don't really like her that much
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Here's a really interesting review: mixed, by "Moriarty" from Ain't it Cool.
But for some reason--no talkback??
BTW, what WAS the general consensus among hard-core fans of Supes? Just curious: Ben, was it similar to your reaction?
But for some reason--no talkback??
BTW, what WAS the general consensus among hard-core fans of Supes? Just curious: Ben, was it similar to your reaction?
You can’t just have your characters announce how they feel! That makes me feel angry!
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Answers to some of your thoughts...
Funnily enough, I will end up owning SR as part of the Ultimate Supes DVD set later this month...
But it's interesting to read your comments - even though you liked (even "loved!") the movie, you all still had problems with it. It's not a classic like Spidey 2 or even Kong, which I wouldn't call perfect either but was a heck of a thrill ride.
Ottman says he wrote Luthor a "theme" (using the word lightly there) as the first one had none? Um, did he even bother to listen to "March Of The Villains (Lex Luthor's Theme)" which is what accompanied Luthor's every move in the first films? The only thing Ottman brought to the new score was layered chords and brass stabs...nothing 90% of music composers don't bring to their summer popcorn pictures every year. A shame, since the stuff he did for Fantastic Four wasn't half bad. I still think the same guy shouldn't have been cutting and scoring the film at the same time...both suffered immeasurably, especially compared to Williams' music, which is what he had to live up to. Bummer.
Even though I'm a bit of a Hathaway fan, I could easily see her as Lois. I'd never made that connection, but she would be super (no pun intended). Wow, that would have been g-r-e-a-t!
On Moriarty:
"These are little things, and it sounds like I'm getting bogged down in the negative."
Not little things to me, which proved the film's undoing.
"And even if they're still griping when the credits roll, that dedication to the memory of Christopher and Dana Reeve should make even the grinchiest grinch nod in approval."
Nope - the dedication felt tacked on, thrown in among the credits instead of up front as Geoffrey Unsworth's was on the original 1978 film. Where it was felt more of an afterthought as opposed to true and meaningful respect.
...and I have many more problems with it than just those mentioned.
Funnily enough, I will end up owning SR as part of the Ultimate Supes DVD set later this month...
But it's interesting to read your comments - even though you liked (even "loved!") the movie, you all still had problems with it. It's not a classic like Spidey 2 or even Kong, which I wouldn't call perfect either but was a heck of a thrill ride.
Ottman says he wrote Luthor a "theme" (using the word lightly there) as the first one had none? Um, did he even bother to listen to "March Of The Villains (Lex Luthor's Theme)" which is what accompanied Luthor's every move in the first films? The only thing Ottman brought to the new score was layered chords and brass stabs...nothing 90% of music composers don't bring to their summer popcorn pictures every year. A shame, since the stuff he did for Fantastic Four wasn't half bad. I still think the same guy shouldn't have been cutting and scoring the film at the same time...both suffered immeasurably, especially compared to Williams' music, which is what he had to live up to. Bummer.
Even though I'm a bit of a Hathaway fan, I could easily see her as Lois. I'd never made that connection, but she would be super (no pun intended). Wow, that would have been g-r-e-a-t!
On Moriarty:
"These are little things, and it sounds like I'm getting bogged down in the negative."
Not little things to me, which proved the film's undoing.
"And even if they're still griping when the credits roll, that dedication to the memory of Christopher and Dana Reeve should make even the grinchiest grinch nod in approval."
Nope - the dedication felt tacked on, thrown in among the credits instead of up front as Geoffrey Unsworth's was on the original 1978 film. Where it was felt more of an afterthought as opposed to true and meaningful respect.
...and I have many more problems with it than just those mentioned.
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Well, she made a deal with "The Devil", so making a Superman movie was impossible for her.Even though I'm a bit of a Hathaway fan, I could easily see her as Lois. I'd never made that connection, but she would be super (no pun intended). Wow, that would have been g-r-e-a-t!
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My feelings exactlyBen wrote: Even though I'm a bit of a Hathaway fan, I could easily see her as Lois. I'd never made that connection, but she would be super (no pun intended). Wow, that would have been g-r-e-a-t!
When I heard critics bashing Kate Bosworth, one of the ones I read specifically mentioned Hathaway. I was a bit curious, but after seeing Prada I can easily see why, she was great and made the role memorable.
As for the matter of her being cast impossible, well I could see her easily fitting it into her schedule. Hasn't that happened with Anne anyway? I'm not positive, but I think she did Princess Diaries 2 and Ella Enchanted around the same time But I'm not sure.
I would've loved seeing AH in SR but I guess I'm gonna have to watch the critiquelly non favored Kate B.
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even though you liked (even "loved!") the movie
Parts of it...now that I've had some time to reflect on it I see even more problems with it...pacing...plotting...casting....characterization...what I liked most about it was the "different"' approach it took to some things like Superman's lonliness as an "alien", etc...although it definetely didn't explore it enough, especially since he doesn't even talk that much in the film!
The story was pretty blah...I didn't believe in Spacey/Lex's plot at all...I accpted it at the time though...and even though in some ways I liked the nastier edge he gave to Lex, it's never fleshed out exactly WHY Lex is so bitter...plus Spacey flip-flops between somewhat believable supervillainy and "cartoonish supervillainy" so much that it makes you dizzy.
And for some reason the opening scene with him and the rich old dying lady was kinda....icky....left this bitter taste in your mouth as you don't know whether it's funny or sad what he did to this old lady.
Maybe that's why the film seemed "interesting" to me the first time I saw it, because it veered so wildly from one tone to another.
Plus:
Why would Clark spy on Lois at home with her would-be husband like that?
How could he not know that the little boy was his child and why doesn't he seem to care more?
Why on earth does he go get drunk with Jimmy Olsen after he finds out Lois isn't available anymore? Is Bryan like, implying something? (J/K )
And come to think of it, why WOULD Jimmy bake Clark a cake??
Still even with everything I thought Brandon was awesome, even though Superman is less convincing than a cartoon and Clark is barely a character. If it was anyone else, the film would have been a bomb many times over. He barely talks but his eyes say so much. Even with Bryan's mostly lousy script.
Also, was it just me, or did Jimmy Olsen actually look older than Clark??
...and I have many more problems with it than just those mentioned.
I'd love to hear more.
You can’t just have your characters announce how they feel! That makes me feel angry!
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I saw this film again tonight. (Actually, I walked in about halfway through it)
What a difference a second viewing makes.
All I can say is that Singer has assembled some superior filmmaking techniques like good camera angles and some fine directing into a thoroughly depressing, completely cynical piece of c**p.
Why the change of heart? I realized while watching the film that Singer has a very definete idea about this story: not only does he not care, he doesn't believe in it and spends most of the film refuting the idea that one man--even a "super-man" can really make any kind of difference.
The film isn't "dark", it's just crass, depraved, and treats its audience with utter contempt. That's why so many people (including myself) were "fooled" the first time around--oh, sure, that optimistic Williams-esque music and sprawling vistas seem to stay true to the Man of Steel myth when in actuality Singer is tearing it down in every scene.
There is no hope for Superman. Not as Clark or as Kal'el. He will never have a marriage. He will never really get to know his child. And to top it all off, humanity, despite Jor-El's words at the start, is made up of a mostly ungrateful, shallow population who doesn't deserve salvation, despite the Christ-like Ka'lel literally dying for our sins as he falls to earth, crucified by Lex's kryptonite. Except here there is no redemption for us and never will be.
I also want to note three other things that bothered me:
*SPOILERS*
Apparently in the five years of Superman's absence Lois wrote an article called "Why the World Doesn't Need Superman" which she won a Pulitzer for. Bryan could have used the same title for this film.
Well, that's all I'm going to say for now.
What a difference a second viewing makes.
All I can say is that Singer has assembled some superior filmmaking techniques like good camera angles and some fine directing into a thoroughly depressing, completely cynical piece of c**p.
Why the change of heart? I realized while watching the film that Singer has a very definete idea about this story: not only does he not care, he doesn't believe in it and spends most of the film refuting the idea that one man--even a "super-man" can really make any kind of difference.
The film isn't "dark", it's just crass, depraved, and treats its audience with utter contempt. That's why so many people (including myself) were "fooled" the first time around--oh, sure, that optimistic Williams-esque music and sprawling vistas seem to stay true to the Man of Steel myth when in actuality Singer is tearing it down in every scene.
There is no hope for Superman. Not as Clark or as Kal'el. He will never have a marriage. He will never really get to know his child. And to top it all off, humanity, despite Jor-El's words at the start, is made up of a mostly ungrateful, shallow population who doesn't deserve salvation, despite the Christ-like Ka'lel literally dying for our sins as he falls to earth, crucified by Lex's kryptonite. Except here there is no redemption for us and never will be.
I also want to note three other things that bothered me:
*SPOILERS*
Apparently in the five years of Superman's absence Lois wrote an article called "Why the World Doesn't Need Superman" which she won a Pulitzer for. Bryan could have used the same title for this film.
Well, that's all I'm going to say for now.
You can’t just have your characters announce how they feel! That makes me feel angry!
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Shy Violet - yay!!
I still have many more concerns (SR did NOT contaian <I>any</I> "good camera angles and some fine directing") but you have started to witness what I did the first time out.
When I came out of the theater, I was going to write a piece called "Why the World Doesn't Need Bryan Singer's Superman", but the thoughts were too emotionally messed up in my head to get it out straight!
I still have many more concerns (SR did NOT contaian <I>any</I> "good camera angles and some fine directing") but you have started to witness what I did the first time out.
When I came out of the theater, I was going to write a piece called "Why the World Doesn't Need Bryan Singer's Superman", but the thoughts were too emotionally messed up in my head to get it out straight!