The Underrated animated movies of the '90's

Post by **droosan** » February 13th, 2006, 8:34 pm

A BUG'S LIFE is still my favorite of John Lasseter's movies; at least, it's the one I watch most often.

FERN GULLY, ROCK-A-DOODLE, ROVER DANGERFIELD, and SWAN PRINCESS are films I've yet to see .. though one day I intend to check 'em out!

I did see THUMBELINA in its theatrical release .. and while it is far from Bluth's 'best' work, I agree it wasn't all bad. Definitely some nice stuff here-and-there.

I remember mostly being disappointed with THUMBELINA at the time, since Bluth had left Disney (over a decade before) in order to make animated movies "the way Disney used to make," .. and THUMBELINA found him instead chasing their early-'90's 'Broadway-styled' musical trend (while the same could be said somewhat of ANASTASIA, I was more satisfied with that film as a whole). Though, it would be interesting to take another look at THUMBELINA, 15 years on ..

Post by **eddievalient** » February 13th, 2006, 8:42 pm

I don't think "Thumbelina" is a bad movie. As a kid I wasn't too impressed, but I watched it again recently and it's OK. Not his best work but not as terrible as it's made out to be. Of course, being a more or less lifelong Barry Manilow fan, I really enjoy the soundtrack for it (which he wrote). The music is easily the best part.

Post by **Ben** » February 14th, 2006, 10:32 am

Yeah, the Bug's Life reference was a set up.

Plus, I would be surprised if they're going for that kinda audience with Cars...it certainly seems like it'll be a much more "gentler" kind of film as opposed to the hyper Incredibles.

Post by **ShyViolet** » February 14th, 2006, 3:26 pm

I remember mostly being disappointed with THUMBELINA at the time, since Bluth had left Disney (over a decade before) in order to make animated movies "the way Disney used to make," .. and THUMBELINA found him instead chasing their early-'90's 'Broadway-styled' musical trend (while the same could be said somewhat of ANASTASIA, I was more satisfied with that film as a whole). Though, it would be interesting to take another look at THUMBELINA, 15 years on ..

I like some of Don Bluth's work (especially his color and designs). I like that he uses a "darker" approch to storytelling with less conventional three-act structures and unique characterizations.
There is some talk of him now on another forum: (Jim Hill Media)
Which is kind of thought provoking but VERY (and in my opinion unnecessarily) rough on Bluth:

Semaj86
Across the aisle
Posts: 92
(2/12/06 7:02 pm)
Reply Re: Terrible film--and nothing new
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Okay, here's one thing I never got: even when Disney DID eventually come back to life, why did Don Bluth never return?

As much as he tries to delude himself into thinking he's restoring the artistic brilliance of Walt Disney's camelot films (Snow White, Pinocchio, Fantasia, Dumbo, and Bambi), his films are very generic and mediocre at best. The Land Before Time was basically a prehistoric rip-off of Bambi.

Based on this story, Bluth did have a right to be impatient. But I think he should've swallowed his pride years ago. The only thing he really accomplished since 1982 was spearheading the Disney knock-off genre that has occurred since the 1990's. Nobody even TRIES to remember stuff like Rover Dangerfield or Quest for Camelot. And those endless Land Before Time sequels may have only ENCOURAGED Disney to do the same crap with their own films (which is disgraceful, because we really did NOT need or even want to see a prequel to Bambi).

beans
Unregistered User
(2/12/06 10:25 pm)
Reply What about the game?
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How can the article overlook the game, designed by the creator of Leisure Suit Larry?

DerekJ
A Pair O' Dice
Posts: 229
(2/13/06 1:33 am)
Reply Re: Terrible film--and nothing new
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Quote:
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Okay, here's one thing I never got: even when Disney DID eventually come back to life, why did Don Bluth never return?

As much as he tries to delude himself into thinking he's restoring the artistic brilliance of Walt Disney's camelot films (Snow White, Pinocchio, Fantasia, Dumbo, and Bambi), his films are very generic and mediocre at best.
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They're also creepy, jawdropping, and--well, I wouldn't say "borderline pedo", as that's too misleading, but more in the general sense that Don has a few sick-puppy bugs about the portrayal of kids in his film--but shh, don't tell him that--He still thinks he's a genius... |

(Anyone else, after all, would've told Fox, "Look, I'm glad you thought 'Anastasia' made money, but what makes you think I could direct a sci-fi film??")

Thylacine
One of the crowd
Posts: 1
(2/13/06 2:03 pm)
Reply Go easy on Bluth folks...
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I’m new to the thread, but I’m still going to say that I am not pleased with the words spoken about Bluth here. Whatever he’s done since he left Disney, he’s remained dedicated to rich animation, and interesting narratives. Sure the stories aren’t clear sometimes, but I chock that up not having a stable creative environment to work in half the time.

Don was the first to say, “Enough is Enough,” to Disney animation, and prove that you can make films outside the “Disney Box” like “Nimh,” and “An American Tale.” There are two films that succeeded in being adventurous, dark, and complex- something “Cauldron,” or honestly, anything from Disney (since the 80’s) could never do.

As far as setting himself aside from the likes of Swan Princess fluff, Don has one BIG defining talent.

No one, and I repeat, no one, knows color like Don Bluth. Take a look at any of his films, even the most berated, and you will see palettes that put anything the mouse house has to offer to shame. “All Dogs go to Heaven” is a mess of a film, but what a pretty mess it is.

Bluth should not be undermined, he is a talent worth serious reckoning, and someday, when he isn’t being buried by Disney (Like the time they re-released "The Little Mermaid" to coincide with "Anastasia"), people will see him for the dedicated talent he is. He just needs a stable studio, and time to write a script. Who doesn't?

And “Hey Jim, why for no mention of Burton in your ‘Black Cauldron’ write up?”

A serious oversight indeed. I think his stories about the studio show a different take on “Disney Animation” at that time. Who thought locking Andreas Deja and Tim Burton in the same room was a “good” idea?

Edited by: Thylacine at: 2/13/06 2:05 pm

DerekJ
A Pair O' Dice
Posts: 231
(2/13/06 5:25 pm)
Reply Re: Go easy on Bluth folks...
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Quote:
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No one, and I repeat, no one, knows color like Don Bluth. Take a look at any of his films, even the most berated, and you will see palettes that put anything the mouse house has to offer to shame. “All Dogs go to Heaven” is a mess of a film, but what a pretty mess it is.
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A creepy and desperately out-of-touch mess, however.
(Put it this way: You can haphazardly spill paint on the floor, and it might be pretty and undeniably colorful, but you still wouldn't want to walk on it.)

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Don was the first to say, “Enough is Enough,” to Disney animation, and prove that you can make films outside the “Disney Box” like “Nimh,” and “An American Tale.” There are two films that succeeded in being adventurous, dark, and complex- something “Cauldron,” or honestly, anything from Disney (since the 80’s) could never do.
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Yeah...If only he didn't have that "Dear gods, Don, what IS it with you, anyway??" leanings towards garish design, ugly rotoscoping, and a "'helpless' fetish" toward his characters that strays well past the boundaries of "...And we DO mean 'fetish'. "

I defy you to sit any real child under the age of nine and make them watch "Thumbelina". Or "A Troll in Central Park". I double-dog dare you. (I was almost about to say "Bartok the Magnificent", but......no. Just no.)
Anyone who still makes lame, outdated gags about Disney's films being sappy, saccharine romps with princesses and bunnies has never seen Out of Touch With The Audience until he's sat through one of Bluth's personal acid trips.

Thylacine
One of the crowd
Posts: 2
(2/13/06 5:54 pm)
Reply Re: Go easy on Bluth folks...
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"(Put it this way: You can haphazardly spill paint on the floor, and it might be pretty and undeniably colorful, but you still wouldn't want to walk on it.)"

I hardly think his films are accidents. Also, I'd love to look at something troubling, rather than something dull.

"Anyone who still makes lame, outdated gags about Disney's films being sappy, saccharine romps with princesses and bunnies has never seen Out of Touch With The Audience until he's sat through one of Bluth's personal acid trips."

I "double dog dare yah" to tell me this,

"Who IS the audience for animated films?"

And besides, I prefer garish acid trips to underdesigned broadway knock offs like "Beauty and the Beast" any day.

Unless they get an outside production design team, like Scarfe, Mignola, or the Brizzi Brothers- Disney films are boring to look at.

Semaj86
Across the aisle
Posts: 93
(2/14/06 12:58 am)
Reply Re: Go easy on Bluth folks...
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I defy you to sit any real child under the age of nine and make them watch "Thumbelina". Or "A Troll in Central Park". I double-dog dare you. (I was almost about to say "Bartok the Magnificent", but......no. Just no.)

I recall being given the opportunity to watch An American Tail and All Dogs Go to Heaven when I was little, but never being able to sit thru either film. To this day, the only Bluth film I've had the strength to see in its entirety was The Land Before Time.

Anyone who still makes lame, outdated gags about Disney's films being sappy, saccharine romps with princesses and bunnies has never seen Out of Touch With The Audience until he's sat through one of Bluth's personal acid trips

Amen. If anyone ever compared my drawings to those of Mr. Bluth, I'd take that as an insult.

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Post by **droosan** » February 14th, 2006, 4:36 pm

Yes, very mean-spirited stuff; reminds me why I stopped posting at JHM a couple years ago.

Personally, I can find something to like about all the Don Bluth films I've seen .. even if it's just within a sequence, or a particular character bit, or whatever. I've never worked for him, but I've worked with plenty of people who have, and it did seem those folks either absolutely loved him, or outright hated him .. very little middle-of-the-road feeling there.

Yet without THE SECRET OF NIMH, and especially AN AMERICAN TAIL, the Disney 'renaissance' certainly would have taken longer to happen. The wild merchandising success of TAIL, in particular, became the early model of Disney's marketing blitzkriegs .. and even the tactic of including a top-40/radio-pop rendition of a song from the film in the end credits started there.

But I digress; this is not a Bluth thread ..

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Regarding THUMBELINA, I didn't mean to imply that I disliked it .. only that I was disappointed (at that time) that its structure seemed to mimic the formulas of THE LITTLE MERMAID/BEAUTY AND THE BEAST somewhat. I may seek it out sometime soon, to see it with fresh eyes ..

Post by **Meg** » February 14th, 2006, 8:49 pm

Where do you work, Droosan?

Post by **droosan** » February 15th, 2006, 2:03 am

I answered you in a PM, Meg .. I didn't want to hi-jack this thread any further.

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A much-underrated anime film from the 1990's is CATNAPPED! (aka CATLAND BANIPAL WITT).

If you're a fan of Ghibli/Miyazaki films or the charming Studio Toei animated features of the 1960's, I highly recommend this! Very, very charming film .. extremely imaginative, lots of laughs, and even manages to tug a tear or two toward the end.

Don't be put off by Pioneer's hideous packaging for the DVD (which does its best to make it look like a POKEMON clone); CATNAPPED! is well-worth buying, renting, or adding to your Netflix queue.

Post by **Dacey** » February 19th, 2006, 1:21 pm

Bluth's best films, at least to me, are "Titan A.E." and "Anastasia".

Post by **Meg** » February 19th, 2006, 3:44 pm

I've never seen Titan A.E...I've been meaning to rent it one of these days.

Post by **Dacey** » February 19th, 2006, 4:10 pm

Yeah, it's probably wise to rent it first. Not everybody likes it. However, you can buy it for pretty cheap these days.

Post by **Meg** » February 19th, 2006, 4:47 pm

Thank goodness I've got a BlockBuster gift card.

Post by **ShyViolet** » February 20th, 2006, 3:27 pm

I've never seen Titan and I think the Anastasia characters are a bit by-the-numbers (HATED Dimitri) but I loved the look of the film and Bartok was so funny! Plus the songs were AMAZING.

Still, too much "I want" formula and "oh they hate each other no they love each other" interplay between Anya and Dim.

Plus what about Anya's childhood and how she grew up in the orphanage? What happened to her after the train left? How exactly did she lose her memory?

It might have been interesting to explore that a little more, and see more about how Anya came to be who she was. She seemed a little too self-confident for a girl who grew up the way she did. (Or maybe even had short flashbacks to Dimitri's less-than-ideal childhood that would parallel hers, reflecting how they're "meant for each other")

Meg Ryan--MEH. I'd've preferred Sandra Bullock.

She did such a great job in POE and she doesn't have that annoying "Vally Girl" accent.

Post by **Ben** » February 21st, 2006, 7:29 am

Yeah, Meg was an "interesting" choice.

Pretty much liked the film though, until the end, which was not big enough or "real" enough. And what was with Bartok just suddenly giving up???

Post by **Dacey** » February 21st, 2006, 3:02 pm

I pretty much got that he was never really a "Villain" to begin with. That was why he left Resp-however-you-spell-his-name.

Post by **ShyViolet** » February 21st, 2006, 9:54 pm

Wasn't it because he met a pretty "girl-bat"?

One thing that bothered me about Anastasia even though I really liked it was how it totally glosses over the Russian Revolution. I know that it's just basically a fairy tale film and all that, but IMO they should have mentioned the whole class struggle thing a little more....ESPECIALLY since Anya was basically marrying "down" by being with Dimitiri who had been living in poverty as a kitchen boy while she was coddled in luxury...

When she's abandoned she becomes one of the poor even though she's technically royal blood. Couldn't they have made something of that? They summed it all up in one word: Rasputin poisened the hearts of the people and made them revolt against the aristocracy....pretty lame in my opinion.

But I'll shut up now. Sorry to nitpick...