Marvel Cinematic Universe

[Randall]

So.... Turning the MCU into one long TV show was a bad idea? If only someone could have seen that coming.

We (me and sonny boy) have been catching up on the Netflix Marvel shows, and they're really good (okay, we haven't gotten to Iron Fist yet). THAT should have been the model. Keep the TV stuff in its own little universe, if you have to keep TV stuff at all. (And, of course, have good writing!) I loved WandaVision, but having it lead into the Doctor Strange film, offering no explanation to non-WV viewers, did not work. And ceding Captain Marvel's series to a team-up movie with two TV show characters is a kinda wonky conceptually, too. And new reports saying that the director jumped ship months before completion of The Marvels is telling.

Add in the mediocre and ill-timed Black Widow, lackluster Eternals, and bizarre & unfunny Love and Thunder, and Marvel's got problems. And, now they're realizing they essentially killed off the Avengers maybe a decade or so too early.

The issue of taking things too fast goes back to Avengers: Age of Ultron. Only one sequel in, and the Avengers got the rug pulled out from under them, being distrusted and feared before the world had a chance to love them. Then Civil War deconstructs them further, and its a slippery slope to taking Steve, Natasha, and Tony off the board, changing the Hulk completely, and turning Thor into a joke.

In hindsight, there were several false moves, even during the glory days.

[Bill1978]

I'll admit I just hope Marvel can hold off the implosion until after I get something Young Avengers related.

[Ben]

Arguably, they started going too fast in Iron Man 2, introducing a practically fully-formed SHIELD just two/three films in.

Of course, that didn’t impact *too* much, and they course-corrected pretty quickly — not least, it has to be said, due to Whedon's deft handling of the first Avengers film — but really the "rot" stated to sink in with the SHIELD TV show. Suddenly, everything had to be "connected", when that’s not only a nightmare production scenario in dealing with massive star schedules and/or their ability/willingness to appear in the first place (hence the ultimate no-shows from movie cast members), but a too-heavy viewing burden on an audience who has to keep up with *every* episode and movie to have a grip on the story

While that’s okay, laudable even, as a concept, it falls apart when not everyone can have access to everything. Not everyone could watch the Marvel shows back in the day but now they’re seemingly part of the MCU in hindsight retrospect, at least as far as certain characters go. As Rand said, not everyone could see WandaVision before the terrible Dr Strange sequel, and due to the first Loki just being so random and, it has to be said, six hours of pure *boredom*, I shan’t be bothering with the second, which is supposed to be building up big bad Kang for future Avengers, or The Marvels as I haven’t seen Ms Marvel (and, no, the director didn’t exactly "jump ship", wink!).

Essentially, there’s a reason why stories have a beginning, middle and an end. And the MCU in its purest form was all about Iron Man's journey, essentially, and his interactions with other characters. The Infinity Saga makes up a perfect lineup of films that work on their own terms. Right from the end of Endgame — and I say this including the additional Spidey bolt-on No Way Home, which I loved — it all stated falling apart. Enter the multiverse, and anything and everything became game. And that’s when it stops being a coherent, multi-act story, that’s arguably finished, and it becomes a very expensive, very expansive soap opera.

Maybe a super-soap opera, but a soap opera all the same. Never have the MCU films felt more like big television episodes, from their cinematography to their visual effects and, yes, interwoven storylines, diluted by the TV brand and streaming intentions, which doesn’t make anything feel particularly super anymore.

Because, as someone said, if it’s all supposed to be special, then none of it is…

[GeffreyDrogon]

So.... Turning the MCU into one long TV show was a bad idea? If only someone could have seen that coming.

We (me and sonny boy) have been catching up on the Netflix Marvel shows, and they're really good (okay, we haven't gotten to Iron Fist yet). THAT should have been the model. Keep the TV stuff in its own little universe, if you have to keep TV stuff at all. (And, of course, have good writing!) I loved WandaVision, but having it lead into the Doctor Strange film, offering no explanation to non-WV viewers, did not work. And ceding Captain Marvel's series to a team-up movie with two TV show characters is a kinda wonky conceptually, too. And new reports saying that the director jumped ship months before completion of The Marvels is telling.

Add in the mediocre and ill-timed Black Widow, lackluster Eternals, and bizarre & unfunny Love and Thunder, and Marvel's got problems. And, now they're realizing they essentially killed off the Avengers maybe a decade or so too early.

The issue of taking things too fast goes back to Avengers: Age of Ultron. Only one sequel in, and the Avengers got the rug pulled out from under them, being distrusted and feared before the world had a chance to love them. Then Civil War deconstructs them further, and its a slippery slope to taking Steve, Natasha, and Tony off the board, changing the Hulk completely, and turning Thor into a joke.

In hindsight, there were several false moves, even during the glory days.

Personally, I really think it would've been good for the Avengers to have more adventures, saving the day many times before Age of Ultron changed things.

One of my biggest problems with the MCU nowadays are the inconsistencies and plot threads left hanging. A problem I had with Doctor Strange and the Multiverse of Madness was how the post-credit scene from the first Doctor Strange, where Baron Mordo was going to look for Strange. Also, it doesn't really make much sense for the Asgardians to open an ice cream parlor themed after the gauntlet that Thanos used to annihilate half of all life in the universe and personally kill Loki with.

[gaastra]

[Ben]

Hmm…desperate, much?

Meh…same old same old.

I wonder if the director has seen the final version of her film yet?

[Daniel]

Yeah, talk about a whiplash in tone from previous trailers.

[Bill1978]

I'll admit after that final trailer I was thinking of making the hour-long trek to the 'local cinema on opening weekend. You know, just to do something and get out of the house, but apparently, I have reports to write that are due on Monday. Dang my first-world problems. The current series of Loki and the recent Secret Invasion has left a bad tast in my mouth with the MCU, but this one could possibly just be fun.

[Ben]

After not liking Loki 1 and thinking I’d probably skip Loki 2, your comment *really* doesn’t inspire me to even check it out, Bill!

[Bill1978]

I enjoyed Loki 1 but Loki 2 is a hot ball of mess that I honestly cannot tell you what is happening or people's motivation. I'm only sticking with it cause when you've watched 4 episodes you might as well sit through the final 2.

[gaastra]

First critic reactions are out and--they loved it! Why the heck was the embargo so late disney? You needed this weeks ago! They loved the film other than grace of course but she hates everything. Edit--nope she liked it also!

https://comicbookmovie.com/captain-marv ... #gs.054dwk

[Farerb]

First reactions are always positive.

[James]

Just barely not rotten at RT with 60%.

THE MARVELS FIRST REVIEWS: WACKY AND ENERGETIC, BUT NOT FOR EVERYONE

CRITICS ARE LARGELY DIVIDED ON THE LATEST INSTALLMENT OF THE MCU, WHICH IS ALTERNATELY A "MUST-WATCH" OR "MEH"

[GeffreyDrogon]

Honestly, if the MCU keeps up with its subpar writing, then Deadpool 3 is probably going to wind up like Multiverse of Madness or Quantumania.

[Ben]

One of the problems is the look of these movies. The early MCU films *looked like films*. Since even before the end of the Infinity Saga (on and off even as far back as the first Avengers film, where sets and props looked cheap and plastic), they have a look about them that feels a little "cosplay"-ish. This is problematically most evident in Ms Marvel and The Marvels' costumes, which just don’t look like they were made by Edna Mode (or whatever super-secret-superhero costume makers they all use and never divulge) but by fans who are copying the comics (which I suppose, they are). I think one thing the DC movies got right was the costumes and making them look "real world" appropriate, and their films looked like films as opposed to expensive television. As studios discovered in fits and spurts over the years, why go to a theatre to see what you can have at home?