Marvel Cinematic Universe

[Bill1978]

Well that trailer has made me a little bit more interested in seeing the movie. In general, these types of movies (spys, assassins) don't really appeal to me but I know I will till check it out as it's MCU. Plus I have a bunch of movie gift vouchers to use so might as well pop into the cinema to see this one. Plus I do like the idea of supporting a female led superhero movie. I'm just hoping we get a couple of decent cameos in the film.

[Daniel]

Clip:



Don't cut the hand that saves you!

[Daniel]

Marvel Studios and Hyundai have released a series of commercials featuring MCU characters comprising of the main stars from Disney+ series. (Minor spoiler for Loki) Caught the WandaVision one yesterday. So very cool. Love it!

[Daniel]

$218 million total in first weekend for Black Widow: $80 million domestically, $78 million internationally, $60 million Premier Access. Did pretty good bank.

[Randall]

So, Loki...

Is it just me, or was Loki conceptually a disaster? I like the cast, and it was kind of fun and interesting, but I don't think the writers ever actually figured out what the heck they were doing. The whole "variant" thing never made a lick of sense to me. And they couldn't seem to stick with whether they were discussing a branching timelines or parallel universes. Maybe that was meant to be a twist, but it was just a terrible mess to me. And this is coming from a comic book reader who normally can follow the far-out stuff just fine.

Certainly, it was my least favourite Marvel D+ show by far, which is a shame since the cast was so good.

Oh, well... Bring on What If---? !!!!!

[droosan]

I was actually one of the few who was disappointed by Endgame's use of time travel to 'undo' the events of Infinity War .. but I did enjoy the Loki series, overall. I do think its finale episode fell a bit flat (due to being very, very 'talky') .. but the upcoming movies will be picking up where this leaves off.

The Time Variance Authority originated in The Fantastic Four comic books .. and it seems the way is now cleared to bring the FF into the MCU.

[Randall]

I did not like the use of time travel in Endgame. I am so over time travel at this point, as it's been quite overdone in sci-fi films and TV shows the last few years, and I felt it had no place in an Avengers film. And, certainly, not as a cop-out to un-do their defeat at the hands of Thanos. It's just such a cheat. Boo!

As for Loki, if they were going to use the TVA's downfall as a back door into creating a multiverse (that's what happened, right?), I really wish they would have actually come out and said it in the story, and used quantum physics to explain it. As it was, I really didn't' feel like the writers understood what they were doing. At all.

Was "pruning" really just a way of preventing a new universe from being created as reality branched off? Did the writers understand that? It didn't seem like it. The "timeline" was really just an "original universe" from what I can tell, but it all got so terribly muddled.

And the timeline branched only at the end of time with the death of Kang (that's Kang, right?), so why did it create a multiverse in the present? Muddled! Okay, one can argue that time isn't linear, but it just feels like a garbage answer and bad storytelling to me.

And what the heck is a "variant" anyway? How did they come to be? The concept was left maddeningly vague and inconsistent. And not in a mysterious kind of way; more like in a poorly-thought-out-concept that was way above the heads of the writers kind of way. Bah!

[droosan]

The series' concept of 'variants' -- as I understood it -- was (MASSIVE SPOILERS hidden here)

anyone who'd caused a disruption in the sacred timeline, whether knowingly (as Loki does in the prologue) or unknowingly (as happened to Sylvie).

These variants are brought to the TVA and processed by its bureaucracy. Variants who were found guilty of causing disruptions are 'pruned' (which -- as we later learn -- means they are sent to the end of time, to be eaten by the monster Elioth). Variants found not guilty seem to have been 'mind-wiped' in order to become agents or workers for the TVA. This presumably would've been Sylvie's fate, had she not gotten away. I'm not sure why this was never done to 'our' Loki.

As for the sacred timeline itself, that seems to have been defined as the timeline which leads to a singular version of Kang (the series doesn't call him by this name, but it seems to be who he is). All the resets & pruning the TVA undertook was to prevent any other Kangs from existing.

Before Sylvie killed him, Kang sent a batch of files to Judge Renslayer via Miss Minutes, which apparently tasks her with the mission to locate another version of himself -- presumably to 'preserve' the founding/management of the TVA. But because this action introduces another Kang to the timeline, the entire concept of the 'sacred timeline' is now broken.

IMO, it's that (unseen) event -- Renslayer making contact with another Kang -- that causes him to pause, and to begin saying he no longer knows what will happen. I also think that's the catalyst for the fracturing timeline we see outside his castle. Certainly, it's the direct cause of the statue we see at the very end.

And the TVA (as we knew it within the previous episodes of the series) might operate rather differently now, or even with a different overall purpose. I suppose we'll see, in the next few movies ..

As I said, I enjoyed Loki well enough.

I just hope that not every Marvel movie becomes Into the Spider-verse, from here on out.

[Ben]

Maybe all will be revealed in Season 2… Loki was just confirmed as the first D+ Marvel show to get a second series…

Gosh…better catch up on Falcon and this one then…!

[James]

I think Droosan's pretty much nailed the plot, though I think the reason for

the remaining one's inability to see what happens next is due to the fact that he is honestly allowing someone else to make a real choice by not going any further forward to see what they're going to do.

Unlike the first two D+ series' which had definitive endings, this one was always supposed to lead into the films and (unbeknownst to us but known to Marvel) a second season. So I think that cliffhanger feel with things not wrapping up nicely like the other shows had has left a sour taste in a lot of mouths.

[Randall]

Sure, that's what a variant is, but where do they come from, exactly? How do they come to be? Loki was a variant because he went back in time, so I'm okay with that (almost*), but what about the others? Just normal folk making surprising decisions, like.... becoming female instead of male? Huh? So why wasn't Sylvie pruned after being born, instead of living 30+ years?

*And why weren't all those Avengers pruned, too? You know, the ones who mucked about in time and changed things immensely. Assumedly the, uh, timeline boss was on their side, then? I guess Steve replaced the stones, but.... still.

[droosan]

Y'know how Dr. Strange looked while he was gazing into millions of possible futures, in Infinity War..?

That's how I picture Kang being .. like, all the time. Which could explain his slightly 'addled' personality, during the finale.

But Kang is supposedly constantly gazing into infinite futures for every lifeform that ever existed, in multiple universes. I do think there are still multiple universes within the sacred timeline (how else to explain 'Alligator' Loki?) although -- as you say -- this is unclear.

It apparently is possible for Kang to miss some things, though. 'Old man' Loki was able to conceal his survival for thousands of years .. only to be caught by the TVA when he left his hideout to seek out his brother. Sylvie was able to hide by constantly staying near apocalyptic events.

It's possible that Sylvie was meant to exist as a 'female' Loki in her universe .. but Kang realized only when she'd reached girlhood that some action of hers might begin a 'butterfly effect' that could've led to the existence of an alternate Kang. And, hey -- that does seem to be what ended-up happening, after all .. it just took awhile.

That's just a personal theory, of course.

As to the Avengers' time travel shenanigans .. IIRC, Mobius does tell Loki that those events were 'supposed' to happen. Isn't that conveeeenient?

[Ben]

Do all the variants end up on holiday with a million Hugh Jackmans…?

[gaastra]

[Ben]

"It is forbidden for you to interfere in human history"…*

* except when it’s suddenly okay to do so for plot purposes.


"This is what the end of the world looks like"*

* except for the last couple of times when you also did nothing. What makes this time different? "We have our own movie and need a plot"…!