DC Universe

[ShyViolet]

Re: A possible release of Joel Schumacher’s original version of Batman Forever

Oh God, yes please!

From everything I’ve read (which includes the 1995 paperback movie tie-in); there were actually quite a few scenes of deeper meaning and superior acting in Schumacher’s Forever (many involving Two-Face, if I’m not mistaken). As in the novel, there was DEFINITELY more of a psychological perspective compared to what ended up on screen (I guess Warners wasn’t so down with the darker material, especially since they were purposely trying to distance themselves from theme of “abnormal psychology” that Burton’s films heavily relied upon.)

Also that same summer, I bought a Batman fan mag that had an interview with Bob Kane (among many others) and I’m pretty sure that he’d confirmed that many of the darker Forever scenes were deleted. He gave one particular example of a scene he really liked and that he wished hadn’t been cut:

Basically, Sugar (Drew Barrymore) and Spice (Debbie Mazar) are in the living room of Two-Face’s mansion, doing their make up in front of a large mirror. All mirrors in the mansion are covered up, but they partially uncovered this one.

So suddenly Two-Face walks into the room and is furious that they disobeyed him. He takes out a knife and runs screaming towards the girls—but instead of attacking them, he starts stabbing his own reflection!

So yeah....I’d definitely be down with a three-hour cut!!

[Randall]

I'd like to see it, too. The film had its moments, but it got too campy. It would be nice too see those deleted scenes found and put back in.

(FYI: Batman Forever was what we saw during my first date with my wife, so it does hold special meaning for me! She fell asleep during the film, but I enjoyed it! But after her little bat-nap, we ended up staying up talking until 6:30 am, which was basically when we fell in love. 24 years later, I don't know if she's ever seen the end of the movie, but our marriage is going strong!)

[ShyViolet]

Awww, that’s really sweet Rand!




****************************************


Some silliness, but definitely some good stuff here too! . (Last few scenes of Forever)


https://youtu.be/KRoKA8ZS6zU

[Bill1978]

I'd be up for a 3 hour cut. I know it's probably an unpopular opinion but Forever is my favourite of all the Batman movies.

[Randall]

I can see it. Robin's origin, Carrey at his peak, Nicole Kidman. And despite attempts to make it campy, it still had a good psychological story to it. It's a flawed film, but no more so than the other ones.

I only wish that there was less neon, that Robin Williams had kept the Riddler part, and that someone else had been cast as Batman. And Robin. And Two-Face.

Okay, I hated the whole cast but Kidman. But I still kinda like it!

(What is the point of casting an ugly pockmarked man to be Two-Face? And Tommy Lee played him way too crazy all of the time.)

[Ben]

Bat-nap. I like that.

I actually like Forever, and would maybe sorta kinda probably place it second after Returns (yes, above '89)

But in reality it’s a third-tier movie, precisely because it’s so clear great chunks have been cut out. But there’s a pretty good movie in there somewhere, Warners-mandated alternative music scoring notwithstanding.

Funny enough, I went to see Batman & Robin with my Mum — I have absolutely no recollection why! — back in the day, and she fell asleep during that. Normally if she nodded off during a film I’d give her a nudge, but that time I didn’t think it was fair to keep prodding her and keep her awake through that torture!

On Tessie Forever, though, Rand: make sure she NEVER sees the ending to that movie! If she ever did, marriage over, pal! You know what I’m sayin'?

[EricJ]

From everything I’ve read (which includes the 1995 paperback movie tie-in); there were actually quite a few scenes of deeper meaning and superior acting in Schumacher’s Forever (many involving Two-Face, if I’m not mistaken). As in the novel, there was DEFINITELY more of a psychological perspective compared to what ended up on screen (I guess Warners wasn’t so down with the darker material, especially since they were purposely trying to distance themselves from theme of “abnormal psychology” that Burton’s films heavily relied upon.)

Also, Nicole Kidman's psychiatrist has ONE scene and then disappears from the rest of the film--
If that bit of Marlon-Brando-Jor-El-ism makes you suspect there were whole subplots dropped from the final cut, that's also suspected to be the case (haven't read the paperback):
Supposedly, Bruce Wayne was to develop amnesia in the story, and explore his tortured psyche/origin on the way back, before discovering that it was his true fate to be Batman...forever.

And y'know, I wouldn't even have trusted Christopher Nolan with that, either, let alone Joel Schumacher. Warner wanted the anti-Burton, but they wanted Jim Carrey even more.

[ShyViolet]

Oh yeah, all that stuff rings a bell...a lot of it was in the tie-in, I’m almost sure. The book was actually very well-written; I don’t know if it’s out of print now, but it’s worth at least one read! . One of its best aspects was how it gave us a lot of background on Edward Nygma and why he became so obsessed with Bruce Wayne in the first place.

Speaking of Nolan, this may sound really weird...but reflecting on this even more now, I’m almost sure that a lot of the stuff in Begins with Bruce facing his fear, remembering his childhood (AND falling down a well!), plumbing the depths of his psyche (even remembering his dad) was actually used ten years earlier in Forever. And actually in certain ways it was expressed more subtly, cinematically and creatively than in Begins since at least Schumacher relied on the audience’s ability to decipher clues about Wayne’s past and not CONSTANTLY HAVE TO BE TOLD EVERY LITTLE ASPECT OF BRUCE/BATMAN’S PSYCHOLOGY!

There’s a REASON that creative writing teachers have always said: “Show, don’t tell!”

[EricJ]

. One of its best aspects was how it gave us a lot of background on Edward Nygma and why he became so obsessed with Bruce Wayne in the first place.

The longer script plot would also explain why we have the Riddler's brain-drain device, and just exactly how getting a peek into Bruce Wayne's mind put him in Arkham at the end.

Speaking of Nolan, this may sound really weird...but reflecting on this even more now, I’m almost sure that a lot of the stuff in Begins with Bruce facing his fear, remembering his childhood (AND falling down a well!), plumbing the depths of his psyche (even remembering his dad) was actually used ten years earlier in Forever.

As well as the Scarecrow, which was the last remainder from Schumacher's lost "fifth Batman" movie.
(Which, at one point, was going to be Madonna as Harley Quinn, Jeremy Irons as the Gentleman Ghost and Jeff Goldblum as the Scarecrow, but Warner's first alibi for Batman & Robin's box-office was, I kid you not, "Three villains in the story must have confused the audience!"
Warner literally came up with six excuses before grudgingly facing the obvious.)

[Bill1978]

Funny enough, I went to see Batman & Robin with my Mum — I have absolutely no recollection why! — back in the day, and she fell asleep during that. Normally if she nodded off during a film I’d give her a nudge, but that time I didn’t think it was fair to keep prodding her and keep her awake through that torture!

The college I was in at University had a fundraiser and relied on the local premiere of Batman & Robin for it. The whole college went for the experience and we all left embarrassed that it was that movie we relied on for the fundraiser. Thankfully alcohol was supplied for the event which numbed a lot of disappointment with the movie.

Having said that, even though it is a terrible movie the Nolan Trilogy has allowed me to appreciate the lightheartedness of Batman & Robin. Plus after listening to Schumacher talk about the movie, it is very very obvious that he had very little control over the direction the project went. I still think a lot of the issues with the movie stems from the casting of TV star George Clooney. He made a terrible Batman AND Bruce Wayne. But I could be projecting as I cannot stand Clooney.

[Randall]

I think Clooney could have been fine. I liked him better than Kilmer, or even Bale to be honest. The campy script and direction (though I concede that Schumacher did what he understood the studio said he was supposed to do) and the overdone production design killed it.

[Ben]

I think Clooney could have been fine. I liked him better than Kilmer, or even Bale to be honest.

Get out! GET OUT RIGHT NOW!!!!!

[Randall]

I think Clooney could have been fine. I liked him better than Kilmer, or even Bale to be honest.

Get out! GET OUT RIGHT NOW!!!!!

Yikes!!!!

Anyone want to back me up here?

Anyone...?

[ShyViolet]

I will. I really didn’t think Cloony was that bad...he very much had an Adam-West type charm as both Bruce Wayne and Batman. And as we saw from a few scenes in B and R, Cloony had potential for playing more dramatic scenes as this character.

TOTALLY agree on Bale, and Kilmer as well. 99% of the time Kilmer sounded more like a robot than Affleck did in the new DC universe films.

Funny enough, I went to see Batman & Robin with my Mum — I have absolutely no recollection why! — back in the day, and she fell asleep during that. Normally if she nodded off during a film I’d give her a nudge, but that time I didn’t think it was fair to keep prodding her and keep her awake through that torture!

Yeah, swear to God: opening night, midnight show, packed theater, this one guy in the front row yelled out (when dying Alfred gets well thanks to the cure Mr. Freeze just happened to have on him): “WON’T THIS EVER END???” Entire theater erupted in laughter.

[Bill1978]

I like Keaton as Batman. I like Kilmer as Bruce Wayne. With Clooney I felt I was just watching Clooney on screen. Bale - honestly the 3 films were so boring and serious I have no real opinion on him except for the fact his performance as Batman has resulted in that running joke of Batman having a ridiculous deep voice to disguise his Wayne voice. And Affleck I didn't mind as either Batman or Wayne, except his Batsuit made Batman look overweight. I would have actually liked to have seen Affleck in a stand alone Batman flick to get a better feel for him in the dual role.