DC Universe

[EricJ]

What a mess that was. I am seriously considering being done with the DCEU unless Snyder is removed.

Warner's already got their Saturday-morning validation to start talking about Zack Snyder's Justice League as IF it's going to happen (emphasis added), which means they'll probably go through with it.
The backup plan was just to do a solo Ben Affleck "Batman: Death in the Family" movie to explain all those unexplained Batcave references, but we'll probably get that anyway.

Heck, if Fifty Shades of Gray could be fooled into a Monday-morning sequel despite cliff-diving on the second week, BvS's Monday-morning numbers isn't going to talk Warner out of theirs.

[Ben]

All the DC movies are happening, Eric. JL starts shooting soon and Batman will happen after that.


The Guardian, which we get the print version of and can usually be open minded enough to appreciate big, dumb, silly superhero fare on its own terms in its weekend entertainment supplement, actually picked Zootropolis, as you know it's known here, as its film of the week, with BVS not even making it into the other four of the top five...

I'm debating whether to go see this at all now, but I probably will. Might just do Zoo, as Dacey said, and save BVS for next week.

[James]

Joyless and tone-deaf: those were two of the biggest issues.

I can't think of a full minute of the movie where there was any happiness, hope, or joy. Just two and a half hours of brooding, dreariness, and misery. I don't think I smiled or laughed the whole time.

Just as there were many, many, many complaints about Superman not being the Superman we all know in MOS, this is not a Batman viewers will recognize. Sure, you can probably quote some obscure comic series or issue or alternate universe with a similar Batman, but you'd be missing the point. Batman's snapping-Zod's-neck moment in this film:

Deciding to kill Superman because he might one day turn on us, even if it is just a 1% chance. Pre-emptive punishment for a crime that's not been committed.

Even if you can put those two things aside there are so many plot issues you can pick apart! (Are Gotham and Metropolis really just separated by a river?)

[Ben]

The problem is that Gotham *and* Metropolis are fictitious versions of Noo Yawk. Once you have both in the equation they share the same real estate! I only just heard both cities were in the film, but was hoping they'd do an east coast/west coast thing or base one like Chicago, or at least do a Boston/New York the of relationship.

Seriously if there's just a river between the two then that's just absolutely s**t!

[droosan]

I've always kinda thought of Metropolis as basically New York, and Gotham as Philadelphia or Pittsburgh .. i.e., large metro areas in the same region of the country, but not directly next to each other.

Though -- since they are fictitious cities -- they can be wherever is convenient for the story being told at the time.

Even within a single continuity like Batman: The Animated Series, sometimes Gotham was a coastal port city .. other times, it just has a river traversing it. There are mountains nearby, and a desert area, too. Basically, it has no direct analogue to any major city in the northeast U.S.

[Dan]

Chicago makes the ideal model for Gotham given its history of crime (not just modern crime, we're talking back in the days of bootlegging and Al Capone). Even Nolan used it when he did his Dark Knight trilogy for its stark, graphic look.

I do agree that Metropolis and Gotham being separated by a river didn't look right. It takes away some of the potential drama that would have been involved with a particular plot point.

[EricJ]

The problem is that Gotham *and* Metropolis are fictitious versions of Noo Yawk. Once you have both in the equation they share the same real estate! I only just heard both cities were in the film, but was hoping they'd do an east coast/west coast thing or base one like Chicago, or at least do a Boston/New York the of relationship.

Even the 60's Batman TV series loved to stick in nudge-nudge jokes about Gotham "not really" being NYC, with "Mayor Lindseed" and "Governor Stonefeller"--
And, of course, Metropolis WAS NYC locations in the '78 Chris Reeve movie, or else Metropolis had built their own Statue of Liberty.

Since all the Boston-NYC-Phil-DC cities are all stuck together on the East Coast Mid-Atlantic Megalopolis strip, it wasn't too far a stretch to stick two more in there, but not by a river. Even Boston and Cambridge, NY and Brooklyn, or Minneapolis and St. Paul don't have that much of an independent identity from each other.

[Randall]

Seriously if there's just a river between the two then that's just absolutely s**t!

This reminds me of my pet peeve with Smallville: When the series began, Lionel Luthor used a plane to fly between Smallville and Metropolis, and it took a couple of hours. Later, you could travel between the two locales by car in an hour or two. Later, characters were shown to be commuting to work from Smallville to Metropolis in a matter of minutes, as if Smallville was simply a suburb!

[Ben]

Maybe by then, Metropolis had grown so big that it got close to sucking it up!

Even at the end of Season Two, Clark rode his bike off towards Metropolis and it looked like it was about an hour or two away. I was quite cool with that, actually, since it equated with us living here on the edge of the sticks and then being able to get into central London within less than a half hour. Even if you moved out to middle-England you'd still be only a couple of hours away, and not even that, by car.

I know the States are bigger in those terms, and we think of Metropolis being Manhattan and Smallville being in the Midwest, but can you imagine how slow the show would have been if it was just the gang commuting back and forth? I can forgive that on a TV show where maybe a couple of weeks' worth of time is crammed into a single week's episode, since that's really just playing with timeframes...but to shift an entire city next to another entire city just seems stupid.

Anyway...if that really happened then you'd end up with both masses melding with each other and each would lose any distinct identity. It's just a really dumb and stupid thing to do just for the sake of convenience. What would have been wrong with Batman flying in from Gotham to take on Superman in Metropolis? The best analogy was the Manhattan and Philly or Manhattan and Chicago approach, which is how I think a lot of people always kind of imagined things.


Did you see the movie yet, Rand?

[Randall]

I did go to the movies on the weekend. With the kids. To see Kung Fu Panda 3.

The life of a family man.

Of course, I had hopes to see BvS already, but needed to devote Easter weekend to family time. And Warner does not make superhero movies for kids, as bizarre as that sounds. I do hope to get there soon, though!

[Vernadyn]

OK, my rambling thoughts…. I went in to BvS with rock-bottom expectations, and it ended up exceeding them...somewhat. I was expecting a 2 (out of 10) and it ended up being about a 3. Affleck wasn't bad, though he, like many of the characters, wasn't given much material to work with. I loved the scene early in the film of Bruce Wayne in Metropolis trying to save people; I dearly wish there had more of those types of scenes.

Eisenberg seemed like he walked right off the set of The Social Network or Now You See Me or Adventureland or Zombieland, but even more painfully awkward, if that's possible--if he indeed has range, I haven't seen the films where he's proven it. But the film did hold my attention throughout, even if its messages were more heavy handed than Zootopia and Happy Feet combined. The first half or so of the film proffered intriguing ideas, only to either drop them entirely or over-egg them.

Snyder gave up on the incessant sudden zooms that plagued Man of Steel, which I appreciated. However, his visuals weren't as audaciously visceral as I was expecting--I mean, Snyder's talents don't lie with emotional character moments, but at least you expect his images to be somewhat captivating. And I suppose they are, to some extent. But when you have folks like George Miller and Matthew Vaughn delivering exhilarating action and characters you care about, you've got to offer more than just shots that travel with characters as they're charging at supersonic speeds, swinging the enemy around like a discus, or being smacked through six buildings. In short, there's not much on the visual side that we haven't seen before in Man of Steel.

The actual Batman vs. Superman fight was underwhelming, and the final battle was basically against a cave troll from Lord of the Rings. I don't care if that's what he looked like the comics--doesn't change the fact that he had no depth and no real menace.

The score by Hans Zimmer and Junkie XL was so cacophonous that my ears were ringing by the end of the movie--and it was mixed so loudly in the action scenes as to make Christopher Nolan jealous. (The difference was that you could actually hear the dialogue in BvS because there really wasn't any talking during the action scenes.) I admit I was expecting the music to be even more ghastly than it was, but it was just a nondescript Zimmer score that could have been dropped into any action blockbuster and not seem out of place.

BvS wasn't a great film, but I did end up appreciating bits and pieces.

[EricJ]

The actual Batman vs. Superman fight was underwhelming, and the final battle was basically against a cave troll from Lord of the Rings. I don't care if that's what he looked like the comics--doesn't change the fact that he had no depth and no real menace.

The cave troll was "supposed" to be Doomsday (not mentioned by name, but cleverly hinted in dialogue), as by that point, Snyder thought he could do anything in tribute to "serious" DC, even avenge all the attempts to do a movie of the Death of Superman storyline.

Which they reportedly managed to stick in at the tail end.

Haven't seen it, since my weekend was finally catching up with Judy Hopps, but given the conversations between those who wish cold flaming death on BvS's second box-office weekend and are getting the shovels ready, and those who are offended if you even dare talk about anything else for the next two weeks besides the movie, it's pretty hard to miss having the entire movie spelled out for you.
Don't care, probably won't even rent the 3D stream. (Still haven't with Man of Steel, and Fanboy With a Camera is the one big reason why.)

[Dacey]

Here we go:

http://animatedviews.com/2016/batman-v- ... f-justice/

Some things that couldn't be mentioned in the review...

* Biggest crowd reaction of the night: Wonder Woman's appearance got cheers. Second biggest reaction of the night: genuine laughs at a new alternate version of the Ghostbusters trailer. Take from that what you will.

* From talking with others, Wonder Woman was the big hit of the night, although Lex Luthor got a mostly positive reaction. Affleck was "fine." Group liked Alfred.

* General reaction, even from those who liked it "a lot": "could've been better." "Hopefully Suicide Squad is better." "Civil War will be better." "Man of Steel was a lot better."

[Dan]

Like with Dacey's audience, my group cheered when Wonder Woman appeared for battle and that was about it. They did give out a hearty laugh at Martha Kent's line during the set up to the climax.

Among the interesting discussions to emerge after the film was someone saying "Batman was more Lex Luthor than Lex Luthor". And while some of them applauded the film at the end, it seemed forced and lacked enthusiasm.

Interesting for Vernadyn to point out the music because this is the first time I can say that I felt a score by Hans Zimmer was essentially an after-thought. I mean, outside of rehashing the themes from Man of Steel, nothing memorable stood out and I can't seem to recall any moment of it singing or causing a distraction.

[James]

I liked the WW theme, though they went a little overboard playing it every time she was on screen.