Disney Pixar's Cars

Post by **James** » June 15th, 2006, 5:05 pm

ShyViolet wrote:
Again, until DW can do better (and they have not) seems disingenuous to only criticize Pixar here.

Well, that's your opinion. Not everyone feels this way. But I respect what you say. However, let me just ask this--let's say, for the sake of it, that maybe Pixar is "better" than DW, relatively. Say DW films are lousy and Pixar films are somewhat above average. So? That doesn't mean Pixar's great just because they're "better than DW." It's irrelevent what DW does and doesn't do--we're discussing Pixar here.

My quote was regarding your statement that "Women, as usual, are peripheral with almost no character development." I said that DW does no better in that department specifically.

Post by **ShyViolet** » June 15th, 2006, 5:06 pm

Thanks for the support WJ!

But how was Doc Hudson like Gill? Confused

He was this older, grizzled mentor character who had a "secret" and a heart of gold underneath it all.

I said that DW does no better in that department specifically.

Um...you're kidding right?

Practically every DW film has had a strong, interesting female character--Angie, as WJ just said. Gloria the hippo, who takes care of the gang, Marina, priness Bala, and Azteca (one of my fave J. Lo roles!). Not to mention Chel in El Dorado and Miriam in POE.

Post by **Dacey** » June 15th, 2006, 5:08 pm

Gill had a "Secret"?

Post by **Meg** » June 15th, 2006, 5:09 pm

Plus, it was a buddy comedy.

DAGH, no it wasn't! A buddy movie is a film that's plot centers around the relationship of two people....Like Toy Story.

"Women, as usual, are peripheral with almost no character development."

Speakin' o' which - DreamWorks and Pixar, you better get your butts in gear and make a movie with a female lead. NOW, please. >:[

Post by **James** » June 15th, 2006, 5:12 pm

ShyViolet wrote:Um...these are comedies, James! Nothing wrong with making a comedy once in a while. My problem with Pixar is that THEY DON'T DO ANTHING ELSE (again, with the exception of The Incredibles):)

That argument doesn't wash since just about every single Pixar, Disney, and DW animated film can be called a comedy. Each might have emotional, scary, and serious moments. But overall they are meant to be funny. To complain that Pixar doesn't have enough scary moments is like saying DW doesn't have enough emotional moments.

Post by **ShyViolet** » June 15th, 2006, 5:12 pm

DAGH, no it wasn't! A buddy movie is a film that's plot centers around the relationship of two people....Like Toy Story.

Definetley had elements of a buddy comedy though--the "foil" of A vs. B.

Lightening McQueen, a foil to Mater and bascially the whole town of Radiator Springs.

Buddy comedies often have one character "stuck with" another character that they don't get along with or are a complete opposite of. This sounds an awful lot like Cars to me.

That argument doesn't wash since just about every single Pixar, Disney, and DW animated film can be called a comedy.

POE wasn't a comedy...neither was Spirit. They were both animated dramas, like Pocahontas. Beauty and the Beast had funny stuff in it but yes, scary stuff too.

The DW films you mentioned along with most Pixar films are out-and-out comedies. Meaning they can't be mistaken for anything else. The strongest emphasis is on humor. The Lion King had funny stuff in it but I wouldn't call it a comedy, nor Beauty or Pocahontas.

Gill had a "Secret"?

Well, not a "secret" exactly, but a "scarred past" (literally) of his escape attempts ripping his fin, and his being the only fish in the tank from the ocean, except for Nemo.

Post by **James** » June 15th, 2006, 5:19 pm

ShyViolet wrote:
I said that DW does no better in that department specifically.

Um...you're kidding right?

Practically every DW film has had a strong, interesting female character--Angie, as WJ just said. Gloria the hippo, who takes care of the gang, Marina, priness Bala, and Azteca (one of my fave J. Lo roles!). Not to mention Chel in El Dorado and Miriam in POE.

No, you're kidding right?

Bala? Gloria the hippo? Angie? Yikes!

Every Pixar film, save TS1, had a strong, female character. My point is is that (other than Jesse in TS2) no Pixar or especially no DW film has had a really good female character. Not a bad thing since Disney is swimming in them, but not a fair criticism of Pixar with DW's track record.

Post by **Dacey** » June 15th, 2006, 5:24 pm

What I meant by "Buddy Comedy" is that most of the Pixar films have main relationships between two characters.

"Toy Story": Buzz Lightyear and Woody

"Monsters, Inc.": Mike and Sulley

"Finding Nemo": Marlin and Dory

"Cars": Mater and Lightning.

"The Incredibles" (and, to some degree, "A Bug's Life") don't have that "Buddy Comedy" element to them.

Post by **James** » June 15th, 2006, 5:28 pm

ShyViolet wrote:POE wasn't a comedy...neither was Spirit. They were both animated dramas, like Pocahontas. Beauty and the Beast had funny stuff in it but yes, scary stuff too.

The DW films you mentioned along with most Pixar films are out-and-out comedies. Meaning they can't be mistaken for anything else. The strongest emphasis is on humor. The Lion King had funny stuff in it but I wouldn't call it a comedy, nor Beauty or Pocahontas.

I said "just about every".

Your original quote that you "only see happy, happy, happy in Pixar. People loved Walt's pictures not just because of the "happily ever after" stuff but the scary stuff too" still applies to DW. You're saying they've done "serious" stuff, but I still see nothing dark and scary.

Not trying to be combative for its own sake. My point in all this is your major criticisms of Pixar can be turned around right back on to DW, but your devotion to one company over all other seems to blind you to those issues.

Post by **Dacey** » June 15th, 2006, 5:31 pm

Can we please stop arguing about Pixar and DreamWorks and talk about, you know, "Cars"?

I mean, this debate is brought up so much, maybe we should just start a seperate thread for it?

Post by **James** » June 15th, 2006, 5:34 pm

Wendy's Jane wrote:What I meant by "Buddy Comedy" is that most of the Pixar films have main relationships between two characters.

"Toy Story": Buzz Lightyear and Woody

"Monsters, Inc.": Mike and Sulley

"Finding Nemo": Marlin and Dory

"Cars": Mater and Lightning

Prince of Egypt: Moses and Rameses

The Road to El Dorado: Tulio and Miguel

Shrek: Shrek and Donkey

Shrek 2: Shrek and Donkey

Shark Tale: Oscar and Lenny

Madagascar: Alex and Marty

just sayin'

Post by **Dacey** » June 15th, 2006, 5:42 pm

Isn't that stetching it just a little?

I'm talking about the first two especially.

Anyway, here's an interesting article I found at imdb.com the other day:

http://imdb.com/news/sb/2006-06-13#film1

Post by **James** » June 15th, 2006, 6:06 pm

Wendy's Jane wrote:Isn't that stetching it just a little?

I'm talking about the first two especially.

Well for POE, the tagline was "Two brothers united by friendship divided by destiny". Seems appropriate if the definition is "main relationships between two characters". And El Dorado seems to fit as much as Monsters Inc to me.

Seriously though, I was just pointing out that most recent animated films are about the relationship between two characters.

Wendy's Jane wrote:Anyway, here's an interesting article I found at imdb.com the other day:

http://imdb.com/news/sb/2006-06-13#film1

Seems to be doing better than expected on week days though. I was actually expecting its box office to take a hit because of its length - less showings available per theatre at 2 hours.

Post by **Christian** » June 15th, 2006, 6:18 pm

I was actually expecting its box office to take a hit because of its length - less showings available per theatre at 2 hours.

But eventually it evens out and catches up because people who want to see it are going to see it sometime whether it's an hour long or two hours long, right? Presumably? It's hard to say exactly for sure because say you have a small town with one theater with 200 seats in it and there's 500 hundred people there that want to see Cars on opening day. If that one theater shows Cars five times then it could have 100 people per screening but if, since the movie is abnormally long at two hours running time, they only show it four times on opening day but maybe there will be 125 per screening and it still totals 500 for the day. So it's hard to say how much the running time affects box office take. There are the factors I mentioned but numerous other factors that may never come into the discussion. Maybe it will be the case in some instances that people try to get tickets and can't and put their viewing off for a week. Maybe they perceive that the screenings will be sold out so they don't even bother. With the last three SW movies I knew people who wouldn't go opening week for fear of a choking crowd but I would go and see at least a few empty seats at all the opening weekend screenings. So a movie could be a victim of its own success. I tried seeing Cars but was on vacation and tried seeing it on vacation but it never worked out with the people I was visiting. And I was in a Burger King while out-of-state and overheard somebody talking on their cell phone about how they tried to get tickets to Cars but couldn't since the theater was sold out.

Post by **Kaszubas** » June 15th, 2006, 7:14 pm

I don't know if it was posted yet - I found this commercial on Victor Navone's blog:

http://www.navone.org/Media/Movies/StateFarm.mov