Disney Pixar's Elemental

[EricJ]

Way too many of you seem to think noticing or talking about race is akin to racism! Someone pointing out how many movies coming out are all of a sudden being promoted as coming from second generation Americans shouldn’t make them subject to a history lesson on Native American genocide as if that is somehow relevant to what they said.

Ie., there's a difference between complaining about an "agenda", and about just being in a danged RUT.
Although, with the current studio management, that's hard to tell.

[Dacey]

So they’re in a “rut” (which, as I noted in my last comment, they aren’t) because of the filmmakers they choose?

[ShyViolet]

Also, how can a studio be stuck in a “rut”, if they’re looking for new voices/new stories to tell, and representing cultures that haven’t really been explored all that much in animation?

[EricJ]

Because if you were CREATIVE, you would know how to tell stories about something besides yourself.
Hence the jokes comparing "Turning Red" to some stranger showing you their family-album photos, and the reality of sitting through that experience.
There's a thin line between "A search for diverse representation", and that idiot who waves at the camera behind the local-news reporter.

In Sohn's case, he had enough old-school Pixar experience to take his "2nd-generation Korean-American immigrant heritage", and turn it into an imaginative metaphor for something else.

[ShyViolet]

Learning about other voices/cultures actually helps you learn about yourself. We are all human which is why we share in one another’s experiences.


The Toy Story films have been beloved for years because they’re great films….Andy’s American culture NEVER rendered those films “boring.”

[Farerb]

In Sohn's case, he had enough old-school Pixar experience to take his "2nd-generation Korean-American immigrant heritage", and turn it into an imaginative metaphor for something else.

Turning it into another buddy comedy, but I guess making a film like Soul, Onward, Zootopia, Inside Out and others from Pixar and WDAS is not being stuck in a rut.

I can't wait for the fiery female character to be more assertive than you like and then you start claiming this movie doesn't have a real story or whatever.

[James]

With respect, why point it out at all if it doesn’t really matter? I never heard anyone asking back in the day: “Hey! Ever notice how so many Pixar animators eat in the Hidden City cafe?”

I think the more apt comparison would be asking back in the day "Hey, Ever notice how so many Pixar writers and directors are white dudes?"

And yes, it was noticed and commented on!

Also, how can a studio be stuck in a “rut”, if they’re looking for new voices/new stories to tell, and representing cultures that haven’t really been explored all that much in animation?

Because the films themselves haven't actually been that good. Most are fine. But they're not great. Continuing to only focus on "representing cultures that haven’t really been explored all that much in animation" while not making good movies? That's a rut.

In fact, I'd say it's almost racist. Why aren't these more diverse movies as good as what came before? There is no reason a film can't be multicultural and great. So what's happening? Are the people in charge treating these filmmakers differently than they would other filmmakers?

That's the point I and I think Eric are getting at. Just giving a second generation immigrant carte blanche to make any film they want does not deserve praise from anyone. But that's what they as studios and we as fans seem to be applauding. Giving a second generation immigrant a chance to make a great film, including all the tools that requires (which might include critical feedback, rewrites, and editing), is what's needed. But executives (and some fans) seem too afraid of appearing insensitive to do that.

[Farerb]

Just to make it clear, other than Luca and Turning Red, what other films does this apply to?

[Dacey]

I mean, many, many, many people love Turning Red and Luca.

Clearly theses films matter a lot and work for some folks.

[EricJ]

Just to make it clear, other than Luca and Turning Red, what other films does this apply to?

There could have been a good movie somewhere in "Soul", if one part of it hadn't been abstracted with Picasso doodles, and the other hadn't spent its time rhapsodizing about black jazz in the old neighborhood.
That big missing gray area in the middle, though, was too confusing...Something about bodyswitching with cats?

In fact, I'd say it's almost racist. Why aren't these more diverse movies as good as what came before? There is no reason a film can't be multicultural and great. So what's happening? Are the people in charge treating these filmmakers differently than they would other filmmakers?

It's a sort-of reverse-racist Supply & Demand. Namely, when Supply starts outstripping demand.
When female or ethnic filmmakers get enough clout to be given a directorial project, their press immediately goes into martyr mode and says "It's an all-white/male industry!...NOT ENOUGH of our stories are being told!"

And aside from the fact that "their stories" routinely seem to be about themselves, that could be one reason a largely commercial industry--one that has millions of dollars and a year's worth of man-hours to seek to find one story that everyone will enjoy on some universal basis--tends to make the financial wisdom of overlooking them for something better, until those filmmakers can think of something outside their own Box.
Until executives who've grown up on the "Silenced" narrative decide "Now is the time!", and start giving, to use your term, "carte blanche" to greenlight story projects just based on Equal Opportunity, and not on the direct basis of whether or not their imaginations actually have a story to tell.

Just because it's nice, or one has good intentions of doing it, doesn't mean that Pandering isn't still a form of racism/sexism.
And an overabundance of Supply does not equal Demand.

[Farerb]

It's just weird to me that now Pixar is labeled as being stuck in a rut and not the decade they made 7 sequels and only 4 original movies, two of which were completely mediocre.
2011-2014 Pixar is nothing to be proud of...and look who was the CCO at that time... interesting.

[EricJ]

Three Circle 7 contract-obligations, one sequel that fans were beating down their doors to make, one mediocre apology-sequel for the earlier mess the CEO pushed on them, one original picture that was swapped and rewritten a year before it opened, and....yes, "Brave".
(Which, in particular, doesn't help dispute the above argument.)

And apart from Cars 2, which was his fault, the CCO is one of the last people you could blame for any of it.

[Dacey]

Maybe we can stop the ranting about female filmmakers specifically here?

Really not a good look for us, or anyone who might be browsing through this forum.

Thanks.

[James]

I mean, many, many, many people love Turning Red and Luca.

Clearly theses films matter a lot and work for some folks.

Just look at the way even you phrased it. No one says, "Toy Story worked for me" or "The Incredibles matters a lot". Those are two very different things than being considered great.

Again, my problem is not with diversity or multiculturalism. My issue is why aren't these as great as other films made by the same company. The answer has nothing to do with a lack of talent from the filmmakers.They are just as good as any of their colleagues.

I think it's two reasons. (1) Studios are afraid of meddling in stories by diverse filmmakers. (2) Fans are OK with mediocre results from diverse filmmakers because any representation is better than what we had before.

That may give some of you the vapors! On the surface wanting either of those things may come from a place of good intentions. But I think both are racist. Even if it's out of wanting to be accommodating, executives not giving the full weight of their studios talents and abilities to a diverse filmmaker to make the best film possible that they would automatically give to a lily-white filmmaker is wrong. And fans praising a mediocre film purely because it came from a minority is pandering and infantilizing.

[Dacey]

I mean, no? The people who love those films clearly love them because they find them to be good films, and not “pandering” towards them. The only reason I worded it that way is because I personally haven’t watched them yet, but the overwhelmingly positive reception they’ve gotten clearly indicates they have value.

And there’s nothing wrong rejoicing more diverse stories, either. I don’t think any of it comes from “people being afraid to give the films bad reviews” or anything like that.