Fun in DVD RecorderLand!

GeorgeC · Post by **GeorgeC** » May 3rd, 2007, 1:00 am

<SIGH>

Finally starting to do something with a DVD recorder I got as a Christmas gift last year. Tons of VHS and LDs I want to back up.

The LDs WON'T be a problem since the vast majority of LDs don't have any kind of **** **********.

(Editing myself to keep from getting into trouble on the LD situation. Those that want to know more, educate yourselves on this one!

)

The VHS tapes -- well, some have that Macrovision protection which caused all kinds of havoc through its day and is continuing to ruin people's days on the DVD front where projection TVs are concerned.

Who'd a thunk I'd need ANOTHER box to record from VCR deck to DVD recorder? However, it seems like the gadget I need costs under $40 and as much as the MPAA doesn't want us to know about it, it's readily available online or at a good electronics place. Thinking that Radio Shack has the device handy. Dunno. Something to do tomorrow!

Doubtful I'll get to LD transcription until I solve the problems with VHS recording.

P.S. -- I'm finding that as great as the captured video looks off of the HD drive in my DVD Recorder, the recorder itself is a PAIN to use to edit out commercials and such from the captures. It's much, much easier to do final edits on my computer. At any rate, I know it's possible to create menus and buttons for a final DVD off my computer.

Post by **Ben** » May 3rd, 2007, 1:14 am

That's the best way to do these things...use the recorder to capture footage and edit and "package" it on computer. You're also more likely to end up with a disc that will play in more players, able to make an image file back up, etc...

GeorgeC · Post by **GeorgeC** » May 4th, 2007, 9:18 pm

One thing I have noticed Ben is that I STILL get a video scanline (at the bottom of an image, not throughout) when I capture from analog tape/LD to digital. It's like part of the video image -- the bottom 2-4 lines -- doesn't get properly transcribed and you get a pseudo video tracking effect with the digital transfer.

I don't think there's a darn thing I can do about it. I noticed the same thing with my video capture card when I captured VHS to my last computer.

The only thing I can think of is to put a black matte on the bottom of the video image if I get bugged by it that much. Not a big deal if I'm still getting 95-98% of the video image. I'd rather deal with a little black on the bottom (to cover up the "video mess") than see moving video.

This phenomenon has not happened with my DVD to mp4 transfers. Digital to digital doesn't result in "video tracking" like analog to digital transference.

Post by **Jeroen** » May 4th, 2007, 9:28 pm

Yes, I had that as well when I converted some titles of my VHS collection a couple of years ago. Standard definition TVs don't reveal this scanline cause there is always a minimal black bar covering it up. PC screens on the other hand show the entire image.

Here's an image to show wich black bars I mean, the ones that are actually part of the TV itself.
http://s141.photobucket.com/albums/r80/ ... amloos.jpg

Post by **Ben** » May 5th, 2007, 11:08 am

Yes, this is a VHS head drum issue which they never fixed due to no-one seeing it in overscan.

Usually, they black it out as you suggest, or indeed strech the image slightly, or zoom it in to lose this.

GeorgeC · Post by **GeorgeC** » May 5th, 2007, 1:49 pm

Ben and Jeroen,

The issue with the video scramble disappeared once I watched my DVD+RW through my regular DVD player. It only appears on my computer when I play the DVD+RW.

I'm leaving the matte off it's a computer-only issue. It seems like the image gets zoomed out a bit and cropped on the bottom on regular TV.

Post by **Ben** » May 5th, 2007, 2:21 pm

A regular TV crops the image on all sides (known as overscan).

A computer monitor "helpfully" shows you all the image (underscan) which is why you'll see the "scrambled" image at the bottom and presumably a slither of black (known as blanking) on the left and right sides.

The scrambled/black bits ARE there on your regular TV...you're just not seeing them. Check out a still frame on your TV and note where the screen "ends" within the sides of the frame. Then check the same frame on your PC and my bet is you'll see a quite a heck of a lot of extra picture info.

It's things like this that frustrate when WB uses their Ultra Resolution process. Not only do we lose a bit of picture due to: 1) 1.37:1 being zoomed to 1.33:1; 2) the Ultra Res process zooming in a bit to line up the Technicolor elements; and 3) losing even more image to the TV cropping the edges.

GeorgeC · Post by **GeorgeC** » May 11th, 2007, 4:08 pm

I think I figured out Homebrew DVD creation!

(Note: The Homebrew DVD works PERFECTLY on my Mac and DVD Recorder in spite of horrible analog "squigglies" at the bottom of the picture. Overscan takes care of that on the TV screen. The only sore point is that one of the features on the DVD locks up when I play it through my original 1999-vintage DVD player. Ah well, you can't have it all...)

Having a set-top DVD Recorder DEFINITELY helps with capturing source material. Great news is that it has about every input you can think of aside from HDMI. What a loaded Recorder!

Having around 3-4 different programs (3 specifically for Mac) helps, too!

Besides the DVD Recorder (and a computer -- Mac in my case, your mileage may vary), I used a DVD ripper, an MPEG clip editor, a DVD media creation/burner program, and a DVD/CD label program. Not cheap, but nowhere NEAR $1,000. The MPEG clip editor and DVD ripper I found online for free! I've become very familiar with MPEG clip editor and use the same program to create MPEG-4s for my PSP. As I type this, I'm encoding the Star Wars parody Troops for my PSP.

No question a professional program for creating these things MIGHT be nice, but it would also introduce its own set of problems and MIGHT just be too complicated for what I want.

I got just a bit more than the bare minimum I wanted to get done with this first homebrew DVD and I can honestly say I'm happy.

On to LDs next week... Where oh where shall I start? The Boopster, Tournee of Animation, or one of the other LDs that has one of the million or so MGM/WB cartoons that HAVEN'T been released on DVD yet?

Post by **Ben** » May 12th, 2007, 8:23 am

George, on your set-top, does the image "shift" across the screen at all?

On mine, the image shifts across to the left by more than a small tad, cropping off the left of the picture and creating a block of black along the right side.

By changing some settings, it works, but is still over by a bit. I noticed this too on a much cheaper recorder I have at my office, so wondered if this is a glitch of DVD recorders...

GeorgeC · Post by **GeorgeC** » May 12th, 2007, 8:37 pm

Ben wrote:George, on your set-top, does the image "shift" across the screen at all?

On mine, the image shifts across to the left by more than a small tad, cropping off the left of the picture and creating a block of black along the right side.

By changing some settings, it works, but is still over by a bit. I noticed this too on a much cheaper recorder I have at my office, so wondered if this is a glitch of DVD recorders...

Hmmm...

No, I don't think so.

I have a Polaroid model with a 80 GB hard drive that I bought for $219 at Wal-Mart.

While the DVD recorder has easily one of the fussiest remotes I've ever used and takes FOREVER to start up, it's been reliable as far as I can tell.

It plays the DVD-R I created in my computer fine. No lock-ups at all.

I really don't know what you mean by image-shifting. Everything looks fine to me on the TV set. If anything, I notice more "faults" when I watch the same DVD-R on the computer's monitor.

Post by **Ben** » May 13th, 2007, 8:08 am

Check a disc made in your set top on your PC. See if the right hand side of the image area has noticeably extra black on the right than it does on the left.

This seems to be something I've come across with two different machines.

GeorgeC · Post by **GeorgeC** » May 14th, 2007, 4:21 pm

Hmmm...

I'll try it now. Be back in two seconds.

************************

OK,

I watched a couple of videos on the DVD-R I recently made and noticed a few things.

The video placement is downright inconsistent when you view it on a PC monitor! On TV, you don't see the black edges at all...

On PC, half the time you DO notice slightly more black bordering on the right side, but on my machine it seems to depend on the source video and SIZE you're currently viewing the video at. If you view it full screen, there's no discernable difference between right and left black borders. At NORMAL size (less than full-screen), you MIGHT get some black bordering (more on the right), but that's not always so. Same with half-size. It's not a massive difference in border size, but when it shows it is noticeable.

This is really not bugging me because I don't intend to watch most of my videos on a 17" monitor anyway.

Post by **Ben** » May 15th, 2007, 6:58 am

Wow...interesting.

My main concern is that the black is eroding image information, making the idea of backups worthless. After all, if these essentially become your archive versions, who wouldn't want the entire image preserved in case you want to do anything with them in the future?

Thanks for the info George!

GeorgeC · Post by **GeorgeC** » May 15th, 2007, 3:56 pm

Nothing's perfect. Whether it's film, audio cassette, or disc, there's always a catch to it.

I'm just glad I can actually back up some of the old stuff that HASN'T been released on DVD yet!

Just found out my video capture card is perfectly alright for capturing that darn old audio cassette set that I've been wanting to burn a CD from, too! Those cassettes had been missing for ALMOST FIVE YEARS and I just found them in a box today bundled with LD boxsets.

Glad I found them, too, because that particular audio drama ISN'T being re-released any time soon...

Post by **Ben** » May 15th, 2007, 4:01 pm

Let me know if you ever want to "make some room" once you've transfered your LDs to DVD George...