X-Men Movies Thread

[Dacey]

*crosses fingers for Matthew Vaughn*

[ShyViolet]

I enjoyed Vaughn's First Class but don't really see it as a classic film. I would probably give it about a B plus. If I could have anyone on Apocalypse it would be Ron Howard, hands down!
I know it's not his usual territory (although he did do Willow). All I want is for the X-men franchise to stay alive. If it's not Singer, hope it's someone who truly cares about making a good film and at least keeps the spirit of X-lore alive.

[Dacey]

Vi, be careful who you put on your dream director list. I think you once said that the only person who could save X-Men was M. Night Shyamalan, and I think we're all glad that never happened in hindsight.

[ShyViolet]

Oh God Dacey please don't bring that up!
Years later and I'm still embarrassed about that comment.
But come on, Ron Howard is awesome. Plus he's always been good with ensemble casts.

[eddievalient]

Well...you know...they have these things called helicopters and planes that take people from one place to another in pretty quick time.

All the way to LA and back within the span of a few hours? While also spending hours at this party he was supposedly at? Are you aware of how completely ridiculous that sounds?

I know for fact that he would leave a shoot to go party (on a helicopter, accompanied by two young, um, "associates") before the day was over: the crew was told to shoot the scene as they would second unit and, if he didn't like it, he could shoot it again later.

How exactly do you know that? Were you there? Did you, personally, witness any of this? No? You're relying purely on the word of this "friend" you mentioned? And you know he's telling the truth how exactly?

Are you really that gullible? I'm disappointed. No, really, I thought better of you. But then, you're not the first person I've known who believed unsubstantiated rumors were absolute truth and I'd venture to say you won't be the last.

[Dacey]

Eddie, this is a sensitive topic for Ben. He got hurt by Singer real bad a long time ago.

Seriously, though, no need to make this into a personal attack against him! It sounds to me like he actually knows more about this subject than anyone else on the forum, and to just assume that he's saying what he is without merit is just unfair. We all want to be friends here. Let's please try to keep it that way.

[Vernadyn]

I enjoyed Vaughn's First Class but don't really see it as a classic film. I would probably give it about a B plus.

I do think First Class is Vaughn's worst film--some of its flaws probably have a lot to do with its rushed production schedule. After all, it only came out one year after Kick-Ass. I remember reading or hearing somewhere that Vaughn dropped out of X-Men 3 because he felt he didn't have enough time to make it, but actually ended up having even less time to make First Class. But I wouldn't say that I'm a huge fan of the X-Men film franchise as a whole despite it having a few solid films (namely First Class and X2, and the original has its merits as well.) Vaughn returning would be cool, though I would be more interested to see him do other stuff. (I do really wish he had done Kick-Ass 2, though…)

The biggest praise I've heard for The Amazing Spider-Man 2 so far is that it's "okay."

Too bad. I guess I'll have to resign myself to the fact that the Amazing Spider-Man films aren't for me. A shame, as I kind of liked 500 Days of Summer. Of course, I'll probably see it eventually when it becomes available for streaming on Netflix and form my own opinion.

Making an ungraceful transition back to DOFP… it does feature quite a roster of actors. I hope they're all used effectively.

[Ben]

Eddie can believe what he wants, of course, and is coming at this from a personal direction.

On the other hand, I'm going by what one of my closest friends saw on set and told me after I'd asked him what working with the man who killed Superman was like.

I suspect I am not the naive one here...

[eddievalient]

Eddie can believe what he wants, of course, and is coming at this from a personal direction... I'd asked him what working with the man who killed Superman was like.

Hmmm... Sounds to me like you're "coming at this from a personal direction" too. Just saying.

The reason I take this kind of thing personally is because innocent people have their lives ruined every single day because their peers are gullible (or willfully ignorant) enough to believe the gossip they hear about them. The standard is supposed to be innocent until proven guilty, but what happens more often than not is that people assume someone is guilty until proven innocent. That, to me, is thoroughly, completely wrong from a moral standpoint. We as a society are supposed to give the accused the benefit of the doubt, which is why I often find myself saying, completely unironically, "pics or it didn't happen". By spreading rumors (and that is all they are until actual physical evidence proves otherwise), you're being a part of the problem whether you're aware of it or not. If I ultimately turn out to be wrong about this particular case, then so be it, but you can't condemn a person based solely on rumors and speculation. It isn't right. We're supposed to be better than that.

[EricJ]

The reason I take this kind of thing personally is because innocent people have their lives ruined every single day because their peers are gullible (or willfully ignorant) enough to believe the gossip they hear about them. The standard is supposed to be innocent until proven guilty, but what happens more often than not is that people assume someone is guilty until proven innocent.

OTOH, as noted, he was his own victim of making it a little too easy to believe--
We're shocked if a Catholic priest is caught in this type of scandal, because it goes against his job and beliefs, etc., and he's supposed to be responsible in not doing it...But if we hear a celebrity who didn't exactly hide or apologize for his lifestyle had a little too much fun with his entourage during his off hours, or even on his On hours, the burden of proof is on innocence. As in, we'd need a lot of heavy convincing that he wouldn't do it.

It's harsh to say, but this is a lifestyle based around an activity, not a religious belief or ethnic ancestry that shapes all your other daily actions, and to say "I belong to this social minority" means "I'm probably doing this activity, why wouldn't I?" Not saying that's "bad" or "wrong", just saying that putting that at the public forefront of your cultural beliefs gives people the impression that the group needs a few more darn hobbies.
If you don't like that, well, don't look at the straights, that's not our room to clean up.

On the other hand, I'm going by what one of my closest friends saw on set and told me after I'd asked him what working with the man who killed Superman was like.

(Robert Vaughn): "Singer, you're going to go down in history as the man who killed Superman!"

[Ben]

Exactly...as my friend said when I told him these accusations had been made, "well there's a surprise!".

'nuff said.

[eddievalient]

In any case, Singer is countersuing, so if whatshisname wants to avoid looking like a complete fool, he's going to have to prove that he's not making this up and I'd venture to say that witness testimony alone won't do it. People lie on the stand all the time and judges know this, so if he doesn't have any actual, real, physical proof, he's not going to get very far. The fact that he waited fifteen years to say anything makes the allegations dubious at best. If these parties are so notorious, shouldn't there have been at least one other high profile case by now? If there were other "victims", where are they? If there were other "offenders", why are they not being sued as well?

See, it's not so much that I'm defending Bryan Singer, it's that this guy's story doesn't add up. I'd be making the same arguments no matter who the defendant was. It seems to me that this is payback for some kind of personal grudge, nothing more. Show me some real evidence that he's telling the truth and I'll believe it. Until then, I don't.

[EricJ]

But then, assuming the accuser is trumping up a phony charge, it also reinforces the stereotype of the "jilted date" who WOULD turn around and do petty vindictive stunts like this, which doesn't help the overall public image much either. It just becomes a no-win situation.

[eddievalient]

True. Remember, though, that straights pull these kinds of shenanigans too. Unfortunately, they don't get called on it nearly as often.

[Dacey]

Singer has announced that he won't be doing any publicity for the film now (which he still wants for everyone to see, humbly referring to his own work as "fantastic.")

Apocalypse, meanwhile, is set for release roughly two years from now, but will almost certainly find itself pushed back as they scramble to find a new director (no "announcements" made regarding that, of course, but given the money Fox poured into DOFP, I don't think they're going to want any bad publicity for the next one) . But I suppose they can also keep the date and just rush production whenever they hire someone, as they've obviously done that before.