Fantasia

American_dog_2008 · Post by **American_dog_2008** » September 29th, 2008, 3:42 pm

I wondered what happened to Fantasia 2006.

Post by **Ben** » September 29th, 2008, 4:39 pm

Essentially, what <I>always</I> happens to the Fantasia concept, and has done since the first one in 1940. It was seen as being more art than commerce.

Basically F/2000 didn't make the kind of money that it needed to. The plan was to release the film every few years with interchanging segments but when 2K failed to become a hit in standard 35mm theaters (after a so-so Imax run), the brakes were put on another one, like any sequel.

"F/2006" is actually a myth...the film would have basically come out as and when enough new animation was ready.

In fact, the "next" Fantasia wasn't going to be a Fantasia at all, with Roy Disney referring to it as "The Music Project" (harking back to F/40's working title of The Concert Feature) and it was going to be a mix of classical and new, original music (hence One By One's score by Lebo M).

It's this film that was actually shelved during the switch from traditional animation to more commercial CGI. There's no current news on if there's to be any kind of music feature/Fantasia update, but I wouldn't rule one out for in a few years or so. It seems an idea that won't fade away very quickly.

Post by **EricJ** » September 29th, 2008, 6:18 pm

Ben wrote:Basically F/2000 didn't make the kind of money that it needed to. The plan was to release the film every few years with interchanging segments but when 2K failed to become a hit in standard 35mm theaters (after a so-so Imax run), the brakes were put on another one, like any sequel.

FWIU, 2K wasn't "so-so", it was sold out for its entire run in some cities--Just that the run was pre-set as a four-month limited engagement.
So popular, in fact, it got Disney on their B&B/Lion King re-release kick and those were so-so enough to kill off the trend.
(Of course, this was also back when there were fewer commercial IMAX theaters, and Boston viewers had to pilgrimage all the way to Providence or NYC to see it.)

The problem with the 35mm run was that
A) most of the viewers clamoring to see it had already GONE to the big cities to see it months before, essentially reducing the movie to a "re-release", and
B) most newspapers had already reviewed the movie back in January for the IMAX release, making the June cineplex engagements almost invisible when they opened.

...And "Fantasia's reputation ruined by small-town mis-marketing" history repeated itself.

Post by **Ben** » September 30th, 2008, 7:58 am

EricJ wrote:FWIU, 2K wasn't "so-so", it was sold out for its entire run in some cities

FWIU?

Yep, it was a sell out in many cities, but hardly did anything in some locations and around the world. So, generally speaking, F/2000 was a "so-so" run in Imax theaters. Yes, it generated enough <I>interest</I> in Disney putting their Platinum re-issues in an Imax environment first (for a time, until Aladdin was a no-show and Lion King failed miserably because the "new song" wasn't ready in time).

But, sell out or not, F/2000's negative costs were not made back by the Imax and 35mm runs...the film came back in at loss.

GeorgeC · Post by **GeorgeC** » October 1st, 2008, 1:55 pm

Regardless of whether or not you believe Fantasia 2000 was a hit in "some cities" (WHERE? Even in Orlando the theater wasn't more than half-full when I saw it!), the fact that nothing has been done towards a sequel speaks volumes.

I don't think a Fantasia sequel should have been attempted anyway. It took many years for the original film to make its money back. It STILL hasn't had an unedited or unaltered release in theaters or home video since the original premiere!

Besides, Fantasia at its heart is a big, overblown art film and you're just not going to win over a huge mainstream audience with that film. Heck, I can't even watch more than 30 minutes of it at a time without falling asleep! The lack of a cohesive, discernible story structure and the changing art styles actually works against this film. To be honest, I've really only enjoyed shorter Fantasia parodies like "Corny Concerto" and Allegro Non Tropo (I think that's the Italian spoof).

It would have been lovely if Roy Disney had used his own money to finance F2k but he chose to do it with Disney Co. money. After the minor fiasco F2k was, we're not gonna see another Fantasia redo in our lifetimes. Just not gonna happen.

The best thing you can say about Disney and its Fantasia and Platinum IMAX experiments is that it led to all the IMAX versions of newer films and experiments with action sequences shot in IMAX. It moved IMAX from being the choice of 45 minute nature and documentary films nobody watches to a bit more viable film format.

Has any of this really improved the film experience appreciably? Not really, but then again most of entertainment is pretty superficial.

Post by **Once Upon A Dream** » October 1st, 2008, 2:05 pm

The Little Matchgirl is really sad and the ending is depressing and very surprising,I didn't thought that she's going to die,the matchgirl reminds me of Mulan and Lilo.
One By One is on the Lion King II re-release?.

Post by **Whippet Angel** » October 1st, 2008, 2:12 pm

GeorgeC wrote:Besides, Fantasia at its heart is a big, overblown art film and you're just not going to win over a huge mainstream audience with that film. Heck, I can't even watch more than 30 minutes of it at a time without falling asleep! The lack of a cohesive, discernible story structure and the changing art styles actually works against this film.

Wow.... I believe this is the first time I've ever shared George's opinion on a film

Post by **Daniel** » October 1st, 2008, 2:21 pm

Haha, me too!

Fantasia 2000 on the other hand, I simply love and could never fall asleep watching. I remember when I went to go see it in theaters, it was a full house (ha) and simply breathtaking... the Whale short specifically. Not shocking coming from me, but I think the sequel is superior.

Post by **ShyViolet** » October 2nd, 2008, 1:01 pm

Wow....I guess I'm very much a minority on this, but I personally I think Fantasia beats out F2K by a mile.

F2K looks absolutely gorgeous and the music is spectacular, but overall that's about it. There's no overall theme or idea in the film; it's all just a collection of shorts stuck together.

IMHO some of the sequences--most, actually, have a very impersonal feel to them. The best aspects are all derived from the original Fantasia.

The whole baby whale being left behind thing has been done so many times before in Disney (and recalls the baby mushroom in Dance of the Reed Pipes) even though the short is exciting at times, a lot of it is quite boring. (the music is wonderful though, and the whale is cute.

)

Beethoven's opening symphony, sound illustrated--is a very old concept, as old as, well, 1942. It's fun to watch but like I said, it doesn't break any new ground, and completely clashes with the rest of the film-not that anything in the film really "fits together", though.

Different narrators was an absolutely terrible idea and totally breaks the mood every time. There shouldn't be any visible narrators to begin with, especially not well-known celebrities.

Two exceptions: The toy soldier one and ESPECIALLY the Rhapsody in Blue/NYC one. Both of those had actual heart, in addition to looking stunning. Rhapsody in Blue was just so alive compared to most of this film. Very charming and funny. How else do I say it...brilliant.

Eric Goldberg is a genius and why in the world isn't he doing more at Disney??

As said before, Eric Goldberg is awesome beyond words, but for some reason I never took to the Flamingo one.

Donald and the Ark? Cute idea. Fun to watch. And I actually thought Pomp and Circumstance/Carnival of the Animals fit pretty well. Still, nothing special.

The Firebird Suite, ugh.

Looked really nice, but the whole mythical/fire thing really reminded me of all the mythical stuff in Fantasia, but it was done much better there. And personally I don't think the music fit AT ALL.

And then there's the Sorcerer's Apprentice. Which was probably a bad decision to put in the film because it's so much better than most of it--a breath of fresh air, actually.

*******************************************************

Fantasia is by no means a perfect film. There are some very slow spots and sometimes the film is tedious. But the great thing about it was the dream-like, hypnotic atmosphere it had...just very special, I don't know how else to explain it. It's easy to say: "What do fairies and mushrooms have to do with dinosaurs?" but the great thing was that they are so different and yet somehow, the segments complement each other because they're both part of that "sound/imagination" thing the narrator talks about. Everything feels completely effortless, so strange and different yet so right at the same time. None of the shorts are perfect (except maybe for the Mickey one) but to me they're unforgettable, even if they're flawed.

The problem with F2K is that you can see how hard they were trying to match up to this, but in the end it just doesn't happen.

Everything just feels too controlled--I don't know how else to say it. The best ones are the fairy tale ones--the tin soldier and even the Rhapsody in Blue one (which had a fairy tale feel). If you put those two with The Little Matchgirl and re-released the film, it would be tons better--at least I think so. (maybe they could add them to the 2010 one)

Post by **Once Upon A Dream** » October 2nd, 2008, 1:04 pm

IMO Pinocchio and the Fantasia films are the most boring Disney films (Or maybe just the Fantasia films,I like some of the characters from Pinocchio and I really like Jiminy but the film is just boring) thought I like the Sorcerer's Apprentice segment.

Post by **EricJ** » October 2nd, 2008, 5:27 pm

ShyViolet wrote:Wow....I guess I'm very much a minority on this, but I personally I think Fantasia beats out F2K by a mile.

Nobody here (except maybe OUaD) is saying it's better...
We're just manning the battlements and saying it's not the "flop" it was immediately proclaimed to be when the small-town cineplexes didn't pay the bills.
Also keep in mind that June '00 was just riding the dual wave of Anti-Katzenberg and Anti-Eisner, so beating up on the "cheap sequel" was more zeitgeist-popular than it should've been, and the whales particularly took an unfair beating for being too "story-cutesy".

Now that, like TP and Hercules, F2K is Just Another Disney Film On Disk, it's a pretty darn good one...
Doesn't have that "immersive" sense of magic that the first movie had, but then, it doesn't have that endless dinosaur bit in it, either.

ShyViolet wrote:Two exceptions: The toy soldier one and ESPECIALLY the Rhapsody in Blue/NYC one. Both of those had actual heart, in addition to looking stunning. Rhapsody in Blue was just so alive compared to most of this film. Very charming and funny. How else do I say it...brilliant. Eric Goldberg is a genius and why in the world isn't he doing more at Disney??

(Probably because his one feature-directorial break was "Pocahontas"--
Oh, well, they THOUGHT it was going to be a classic...)

Post by **Meg** » October 2nd, 2008, 5:34 pm

Don't worry Vi, I love Fantasia too. Ever since I was a little kid, actually.

Post by **Daniel** » October 2nd, 2008, 6:39 pm

EricJ wrote:Nobody here (except maybe OUaD) is saying it's better...

*waves*

I basically agree that while the sequel doesn't measure up in some departments, I still favor it more.

Post by **Ben** » October 2nd, 2008, 7:19 pm

Just wanna say I love both Fantasia films for different reasons.

And Once has just lost any credibility with me for saying Pinocchio is boring. Wha...?

Post by **Neal** » October 2nd, 2008, 11:30 pm

I love pretty much all Disney animated films regardless. I feel all 47 of those released have their highs and lows but none of them outright suck or are boring. To me, no one can do it like Disney can.