Flushed Away

Features, Shorts, Live-Action and Direct-To-Video
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Post by ShyViolet » October 5th, 2006, 2:54 am

Does it come as any great surprise though? I don't think so. Aardman have always retained a "too British" flavor to their films for the broader US market, and none of them, from Chicken Run to Were-Rabbit, have broken any box office barriers.

Then we have Aardman's wish to keep things as they are and not bow to the suggestions made by Hollywood that might see their films doing better internationally (they're still big hits in their native UK though, of course). I think the latest creative spats over Flushed Away have seen the relationship come unglued
Hmmm....maybe it was that whole "melon" as opposed to "pumpkin" thing in W & G. (they had to change word to melon to pumpkin since that's what they call it in British English. Plus the word melon to melon.
So what do they call a melon, anyway? :wink: )

Your search produced no results.

That's what I got when I searched for information about the split....on the Guardian Unlimited UK site. :roll: :roll:

[itals mine! :P ]
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Post by Ben » October 5th, 2006, 7:25 am

I don't think the changing of a word would lead to a break up! But bigger things went on during Flushed Away.

Actually, Disney continued to chase Aardman after JK left, and they had an offer on the table from both. They went with DWs.

Now, Disney might be interested again, or they might say, "well, ya missed your chance"...

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Post by ShyViolet » October 5th, 2006, 7:54 am

I also think that Hikaro Misyzaki (hope I didn't mangle that) was approached by DreamWorks as well. He ended up going with Disney instead.
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Post by Ben » October 5th, 2006, 8:09 am

Misyzaki?

Would that be Hayao Miyazaki's wife? ;)

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Post by droosan » October 5th, 2006, 5:31 pm

Whenever someone online gets upset about the movie posters reading "Dreamworks & Aardman present" or "from the creators of SHREK, etc" (usually on AICN or somesuch), I have calmly explained that the film really is a co-production; there are talented teams at both studios working on the film (several folks at the Glendale studio being good friends of mine).

Invariably, I get called a 'liar', or worse. Most people see the trademark 'Nick Park' eyes-and-teeth on the mice, and immediately assume FLUSHED AWAY is purely an Aardman film, with no Dreamworks involvement. Those people want the studios to remain separate .. :roll:

It's really too bad the partnership is being dissolved; the Dreamworks artists whom I know have had nothing but good things to say about their experience on FLUSHED AWAY. And both CHICKEN RUN and CURSE OF THE WERE-RABBIT were marvelous films, despite their box-office numbers; WERE-RABBIT won an Oscar, for goodness' sake ..

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Post by ShyViolet » October 5th, 2006, 9:19 pm

Whenever someone online gets upset about the movie posters reading "Dreamworks & Aardman present" or "from the creators of SHREK, etc" (usually on AICN or somesuch), I have calmly explained that the film really is a co-production; there are talented teams at both studios working on the film (several folks at the Glendale studio being good friends of mine).
Good on you, Droosan! :) . I know it can be very hard defending DW online (I've been called some choice names myself--not on this board of course! :wink: ) I just got sick of being put down for my opinions, so I mostly stick around here now. :wink:

Invariably, I get called a 'liar', or worse. Most people see the trademark 'Nick Park' eyes-and-teeth on the mice, and immediately assume FLUSHED AWAY is purely an Aardman film, with no Dreamworks involvement. Those people want the studios to remain separate .. Rolling Eyes
These people are obsessed in a very unhealthy way with these issues and can't stand it if someone says ANYTHING that contradicts what they think. :roll: In there minds is DW EEEEEVIL, PIXAR GOOD, AARDMAN GOOD, etc....No room for anything else.
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Post by Ben » October 6th, 2006, 7:34 am

I like DreamWorks. I hope they and Aardman work it out and stick together.

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Post by Dacey » October 6th, 2006, 3:08 pm

ShyViolet wrote:
I kinda hope, however, that this will in some way lead to Disney buying DWA. :)
Now why would anyone want that?

DreamWorks helped shake the world of non-Disney animation by producing films that were box office hits and not just Disney rip-offs like "Thumbelina"

One studio shouldn't rule the world of animation. If Disney bought DW (which they never will), what else do you have left? Sony? They're off to a reasonably good start so far, but you never know what the future may hold.

On the topic of Aardman and Dreamworks, I must say that this is very upsetting news. I can't believe they let this happen!
"Yesterday is history, tomorrow is a mystery, but today is a gift--that is why it's called the present."

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Post by Ben » October 6th, 2006, 10:21 pm

I think it's funny that Sony's "Surf's Up" will ostensibly be following the mockumentary route that "Tortoise And The Hare" would have done.

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Post by ShyViolet » October 7th, 2006, 1:57 am

Now why would anyone want that?

These reasons: (And this is just my opinion :wink: )

For DreamWorks it would mean:

1.) MUCH better exposure and marketing for theatrical films
One of the biggest reasons that some DW movies have not done as well as they could was that very few people knew about them. The films are complicated and DW has simply not found the right way to reach the public--convince them that they should take a chance on something different. Thus, they take the "safe" route and market them as something cliche, familiar, tired--when in truth it almost always isn't. Disney knows how to reach a public--THEY are the ones that have done the marketing for Pixar, WHICH HAS ALWAYS BEEN STELLER. (and let's face it--Toy Story was a weird, different kind of project and if Disney marketing didn't know the right buttons to push on that thing--NO ONE would have gone.) Everyone who breathes air knew about Cars. How many people knew about Over the Hedge? :roll:

2.) A first-class DVD/video distribution machine: Don Bluth may not want to admit this, but many, many, many more people knew about and appreciated his films once Disney bought most of his library and aired it on the Disney channel. (Ditto every other obscure animation company that couldn't sell their film at the box office--y'know, The Last Unicorn, The Brave Little Toaster, Balto, We're Back, etc...) They could do the same for DW, and films that bombed at the box office could get a whole other shot. :)

3.) More freedom to fail. DW has done well, but the fact is EVERY FILM counts and every time a DW film does not meet expectatons--even if it does relatatively good numbers, they fall into a bad patch. How well can you do when EVERY film has got to be a blockbuster? Look at all the pressure Disney was under to make Chicken Little "the hit that would save the company." That's what it's like for DW every time they release a film! :( Disney has had plenty of bombs, but no one talks about them "folding" like the talk about DW animation. Disney can protect DW.


It's good for Disney 'cause:


1.) They get the DW library--you know, those big, big hits like Shrek, Shrek 2, Antz, and Madagascar. 2d AND 3d films, great since many people want to see 2d again. The films are also extremely diverse (IMHO), which is one of the reasons the library is so valuable. And it may not seem like DW would be a good match for the Disney name BUT--and I'm willing to admit this, even though they're original, the DW films are built on Disney core values and themes. Like Ben has said, POE was "Disney does Moses." Spirit was "Disney does the old West." El Dorado: "Disney does Central America". I admit it. And even Shrek, with its supposed "mocking" of Disney, celebrates the "happily ever after" message far more than it denigrates it. It's just a new twist on an old theme (as is everything, basically)

2.) They FINALLY get to lay that old "Disney hates DW and vice/versa" label that's been dogging them for the last ten years to rest. The Eisner/Katzenberg mess was a nightmare for public relations and the company's image. As was SaveDisney--and then what happened? Roy was invited back and everyone seems to have let bygons be bygons. That has helped the company to heal a lot of the rifts that the public saw. Katzenberg/DW joining Disney again would do the same, maybe on an even bigger scale. DW can still make "their own brand" of films under the Disney name (as Pixar does) What is so wrong with this arrangement? :wink: And every time DW releases a film, no one will be saying: "Oh DW they hate Disney, oh Katzenberg just wants to beat Eisner into the ground" (even though Eisner's been gone for more than a year now)

3.) They get JK back. Maybe Lassetter is the head of Disney Feature now, but he's ALSO head of Imagineering and Pixar. That's spreading one guy awfully thin. If Lassetter is a bit distracted by his own films and his Imagineering/Theme Park duties, he might need some help. Yes there is, um, some tension between DW and Pixar now, but tensions can heal. (Believe it or not, Katzenberg and Lassetter were friends once.) And as talented as Lassetter is, it was Katzenberg who was there when Beauty and Little Mermaid were being made. :P
Last edited by ShyViolet on October 8th, 2006, 6:27 am, edited 5 times in total.
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Post by ShyViolet » October 7th, 2006, 2:02 am

If Disney bought DW (which they never will),

I wouldn't be too sure about that. :? Disney bought the Don Bluth library. Disney bought, well, pretty much anything animated that was released in the 1980s. Disney bought the Muppets. I don't see any problem with them buying DW. Also, Ben has mentioned that there WAS talk during the sale of DreamWorks SKG proper of Disney buying DW (I think this was when DWA was still connected to them, which, again, as Ben said, might have been one of the reasons that they split off. (Eisner was still there, so....)

One studio shouldn't rule the world of animation.
Um, that has actually never been the case. Disney was not the first studio to make animated films, for one. Secondly, Disney has ALWAYS been in competition with other animation studios--for decades! :) :?
Remember that whole Disney/Warner Bros. thing during the 40s and 50s (Warner Bros eventually completely topping Disney in the Theatrical Shorts department) What about Fleischer's Popeye? Fleischer's Superman? United Pictures Association or UPA--they split off from Disney and made bold, progressive, challenging shorts in the 40s and 50s like Gerald McBoing Boing, The Brotherhood of Man, and later on Mr. Magoo (who everyone knows now) Yellow Submarine, not a Disney film. Bill Melendez and Peanuts. Ralph Bakshi during the 70s, a comparitively "dry" spell for Disney. The 1980s had tons of non-Disney animated films--Don Bluth had some success for a while and was hailed as the next Walt. Maybe he hit a rough spot, but he did sort of make a comeback. He also produced a well-known video game, Dragon's Lair.

Also, nowadays there are still many studios getting into the game. Even as some fold, more will pop up. Like you said--Sony, (Blue Sky) which so far has enjoyed considerable success. The Weinstein Company and Hoodwinked. Polar Express and Monster House--maybe not classically animated but still within the general realm of "animation" or "moving graphics" anyway. Look at how many animated films were released this year. Like what was it, fifteen?? :roll:

There are so many competitors, and anyway Disney, or I guess Disney/Pixar have done well with Chicken Little and Cars, but not magnificently. And really, no one knows how well Meet the Robinsons or Ratatouille will do. Of course we hope they do well, but no one animation company can totally control the market. The public has NEVER been satisfied with "only Disney." There has never been a complete Disney monopoly. DreamWorks joining Disney is not going to make that happen.


In my opinion, Disney is where DW belongs. :) :wink:
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Post by droosan » October 7th, 2006, 4:10 am

While I don't completely disagree with much of what you wrote regarding Disney & DreamWorks, ShyViolet (though I don't completely agree with all of it, either :P ) -- it's absolutely not true that "Disney bought the Don Bluth library" .. they may have licensed the films for air on The Disney Channel, but that's not the same thing; 'ownership' of Bluth's films is spread around various studios:

------------------

BANJO THE WOODPILE CAT .. 20th Century Fox

THE SECRET OF NIMH .. M-G-M

DRAGON'S LAIR/SPACE ACE .. I'm not exactly sure; but I think Don Bluth and Rick Dyer have joint ownership of these .. :?:

AN AMERICAN TAIL .. Universal

THE LAND BEFORE TIME .. Universal

ALL DOGS GO TO HEAVEN .. M-G-M

ROCK-A-DOODLE .. The Samuel Goldwyn Company

THUMBELINA .. Warner Bros.

A TROLL IN CENTRAL PARK .. Warner Bros.

ANASTASIA .. 20th Century Fox

BARTOK THE MAGNIFICENT .. 20th Century Fox

TITAN A.E. .. 20th Century Fox

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Post by ShyViolet » October 7th, 2006, 4:17 am

Oops! :oops: :wink: Thanks for the correction. :)

Yeah, I guess if they HAD bought the Bluth library, we would have seen a costumed Fieval character in the parks! :P
Last edited by ShyViolet on October 7th, 2006, 4:30 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by droosan » October 7th, 2006, 4:26 am

No worries .. guess I'm a little too much of a Bluth 'nut' to let that slip by. :wink:

Anyone who wanted to gather ownership of the entire Bluth library under one roof would have to lay out serious amounts of cash -- very likely much more than their actual worth -- to wrest them from those various studios. And it's very rare for studios to sell ownership of films 'a la carte' anyhow ..

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Post by Ben » October 7th, 2006, 8:10 am

Actually, a lot of Bluth's films are now unlicensed. The only ones that remain copyrighted to their original owners are Universal's "Tail" and "Land/Time", MGM's "NIMH" and "All Dogs" and Fox's last three.

The rest slip in and out of ownership, and even "All Dogs" isn't an MGM internationally.

Bluth retains rights to "Banjo", while the others are up for grabs. "Thumbelina" has hopped from WB to Fox and back again, and currently has no home that I know of since most of these were independently financed (the other good thing about big studio support is continued ownership of the library).

And you're forgetting the Paramount equasion now Vi. That's going to help DWs no end, with marketing that they don't have to do themselves. They're going to get PLENTY of coverage on all the Nick channels for a start and unlike before, where it was just DWA and DWs handling all marketing, there's going to be some major moolah behind the advertising now.

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