Official Star Wars Thread

[spaz]

the han shooting first thing, has always intrigued me. the han character remains the only SW character in ANY of the series, with any balls. seeing as though the American soup du jour is male emasculation and paralleled in movie making, Lucas felt politically guilty, so he had to "give han a reason to retaliate"; make him more sensitive, ya know ?. how much you want a bet the next Millenium Falcon will be a silly Pri-ass?

[Ben]

Just wanna say this:

I saw a copy of the Lucasfilm inventory when I was involved with a couple of projects with them some years ago. This WAS before the 1997 reissues, but as of then, clearly marked were copies of show prints, the interpositives and other elements of the completed original trilogy (and there's a LOT more of that "Return Of The Ewok" crew film than has ever shown up online: I know because I was involved in remastering it for a one-off screening and have a copy of the original, near-one hour version).

All three of those films exist as they were originally released.

What *is* true is that NEW anamorphic video masters don't exist, but then, they were never made up in the first place. The original trilogy has never been mastered for any anamorphic or hi-def format, and so it IS true for Lucas to say that THOSE elements do not exist.

BUT...the original film elements needed to bring out decent, anamorphic or HD editions of the original trilogy AS SEEN in theaters in '77, '80 and '83 are all there and intact. In fact, behind Disney, Lucasfilm is renowned for having one of the most comprehensive archives in the business.

Those elements just need the attention and money (ahaa! There's the problem!) to remaster them to current standards. We may yet get them. I'd imagine a Blu-ray debut, then a reissue and then another set with transfers of these prints *finally* included, after someone realizes that this is the final way to milk out the final few cents from the original films and suddenly someone "finds" the elements needed, during a re-listing of contents, to make this happen.

But they are there.

[estefan]

You know, I re-watched Star Wars again last night and to me, the Greedo Shooting First thing happens so quickly, it's barely noticeable. In fact, were I to blink during that scene, I would completely miss it. I understand the annoyance over putting Hayden Christensen in Return of the Jedi or the inclusions of those un-necessary distractions in Mos Eisley, but Han/Greedo change is not the least bit noticeable to the human eye. Not that I'm condoning Lucas changing his film, but he's done worse as has Spielberg (walkie-talkies? Seriously?).

[Ben]

The thing for me in that scene, that really ruins it, is not that Greedo shoots first, but the computer shifting of Han to dodge Greedo's laser.

The point that it takes away from Han as a ruthless opportunist out to save his own skin is also valid: when we meet him he is this character, so his arc over the film/trilogy plays out better. With him firing in "self defense", we already know that he'll come back to help blow up the Death Star later in the movie since that aspect of his selfishness has been diminished.

And...why should someone blink at any point in a movie to cover up bad post-revisionist filmmaking? Shouldn't Lucas have got it right first time around? Sure, if he wants to fix effects that make him cringe, fine, but to start changing what was originally scripted (and it was his script!) is pointless, especially when it's done so bad.

Spielberg's walkie-talkies is just as bad, taking away from the danger Elliott and ET are in (seriously, with an alien loose on the planet, the authorities wouldn't carry guns?)...and don't get me started on adding Jabba into Star Wars when the scene was designed and already shot with an actor on set...

[EricJ]

The point that it takes away from Han as a ruthless opportunist out to save his own skin is also valid: when we meet him he is this character, so his arc over the film/trilogy plays out better.

Shooting Greedo to get out of an awkward discussion also establishes his basic "Shoot first, use brain later" strategy, which's also in character when he tries to pass himself off as a guard in the command room ("Uh, we're all fine here...<blam!> It was a boring conversation anyway.")

[Ben]

Yep, "shoot first, use brain later", just like a ruthless opportunist out to save his own skin would do.

[spaz]

it's i way i protect my compound; ready, shoot, aim.

[GeorgeC]

http://www.thedigitalbits.com/#mytwocents (look at 8/14/2010 update)

It just got announced at this past weekend's Star Wars Celebration V (for people who don't realize Star Wars really is dead; Clone Wars is continuing marketing for bad spin-offs and children's toys) that the six theatrical Star Wars films are getting the BD treatment for Fall 2011.

Announced:

- plenty of deleted footage
- SE editions; don't count on the original theatrical versions (Lucas really is thick in more ways than one)
- and more that's unannounced.


Hold on to your laserdiscs and videotapes because that's probably the only way you'll get the original versions of the films and the TV specials about the making of the films...

I heard people get excited about deleted "Jedi" footage of Luke making the green lightsaber but frankly at this point in time I'm more than a bit disappointed in the bearded one and his cynicism...

[Randall]

Lucas had a chance to create all sorts of excitement about a Blu-ray release, and he seems to be blowing it. Instead, we old-time fans merely "harrumph" due to the lack of the original versions of the original trilogy.

Oh, I will likely still pick it up, becomes I'm a typical dumb fanboy, but I won't be nearly as excited as I should have been. Lucas has had an awful long time to plan this right, and he's sticking to his plan to ignore the films we want the most. It's his perogative, of course, but his decision-making is really tarnishing the Blu-ray release.

Hearing him say that they "couldn't" spiff up the originals or "it wouldn't be worthwhile" is just an insult. What the heck footage did they use to make the Special Editions? Yes, the same footage that they say is useless today. It's just a matter of what Lucas wants, not what is possible. His decision (which he has every right to make) makes me less upset than his false rationale behind it.

However, I'll still be excited to pick up all six films in one beautiful high-def set.

[GeorgeC]

Lucas is clueless....

I'm really beginning to believe one of my former instructors when he said GL got lucky!

I really think LFL would do itself some well-needed positive PR if they did release the original versions of the Classic Trilogy on BD. Of course, we know it's NOT going to happen because George Lucas is a pig-headed idiot who's divorced from reality and surrounded only by yes-men.

He's a piece of work to believe that people will take him 100% at his word at this point in time. He's lying when he says he can't remake or redo the originals. It's even simpler than what some people suggest... There are film collectors who have PRISTINE copies of the original theatrical versions of the first three films that would lend them for hi-def remastering. Lucas doesn't even have to spend his own money remixing his film stock since there are people of good will that would lend them for the project!

(Heck, a German fan lent Paramount his copy of the uncut original version of "Where No Man Has Gone Before" for the Star Trek Season Three BD set. Things like this happen all the time.)

I started a topic about an interview with Gary Kurtz, the former producer and associate of Lucas, who parted ways with LFL in the early 1980s because he saw where George Lucas was headed in filmmaking and his "storytelling" if you want to call it that.

http://animatedviews.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=3779

You can find the offsite link for the interview from my other topic post.

The more people read this the better they'll begin to understand how far Lucas -- and to an extent Spielberg -- have really fallen from their glory days in the 1970s and early 1980s.

[eddievalient]

Clone Wars is an awesome show! Just because you don't enjoy it doesn't mean that other people can't. Personally, I'm excited about the live action Star Wars show that's been talked about. The sooner it gets here, the better.

One more thing: Yes, it would be nice to have the original versions in full HD, but if you have the dvds of the originals, don't bluray players upconvert to HD anyway?

[Dacey]

I'm probably going to be in the minority here, but I'm honestly not going to care much if the original versions aren't on there. Sure, it might be nice to have them, but if it only has the special editions, I'll still be happy.

Really, the special editions are going to look better in hi-def anyway than the original versions anyway. Again, I'm very aware I'm in the minority here.

[GeorgeC]

Sure,

Blu ray players upconvert DVDs.

They do it by stretching by the pixels of the video!

Stretched-out video is blurry, loses definition, and it looks horrible on larger HD sets.

It's just not the way to see a film on an HD set.

DVD was NOT made for HD. Blu ray WAS...

There's no excuse for Lucas to do this to fans other than he thinks he's right. And there's no one in his inner circle willing to tell him he's continuing a massive mistake he began 14 years ago.

There are very few people who were alive when they saw the original films in theaters that think the re-edits are better. And that's what the 1997 and 2004 Star Wars editions are -- RE-EDITS.

There have been some rumors about legal issues regarding Lucas' divorce (his ex gets a percentage of profits from the first three films) but one thing is pretty clear from people who know Lucas and are willing to talk...

He's very isolated from the public and unwilling to listen to anyone who says "No" or tells him that one of his ideas may not be so great.


******

I will give this to Steven Spielberg --

IN SPITE of the fact that re-edits exist of both Close Encounters of the Third Kind and E.T.: The Extra-Terrestrial, he hasn't tried to supress the original versions and keep them off home video. They're still there for people who prefer them to the digital re-edits.

Spielberg has a far better track record as a director than Lucas and has every reason to be as arrogant and insulated, too...

BUT the difference is that he listened to film fans and made the original versions of his films available.

Good for him!

*******

I'd praise the Prequel stuff if it ever got better.

It hasn't. And won't.

I've seen bits of the Prequels since I watched them once or twice on DVD and they haven't aged well. The worst parts of LFL film-making and casting/direction choices resonate through those films.

BUT, if you knew anything about the LFL mentality you'd understand why many people don't hold George Lucas and his opinions in much regard now.

LFL is all about making toy tie-ins to keep the operation going.

There's really no integrity with the film-making whatsoever.

At least not when George Lucas is the sole authority in film production. (Although it looks like Spielberg partly abandoned or sleep-walked through the last Indiana Jones film, too.)

That was abandoned the better part of 30 years ago...

[Randall]

...if you have the dvds of the originals, don't bluray players upconvert to HD anyway?

Aside from George's points about upconverting NOT resulting in true HD, those DVDs were non-anamorphic, so they used fewer pixels to start with. The laserdiscs would look about as good.

[GeorgeC]

For a quick rough example of what upconvert does to a video image, take a 72dpi "rip" of a still image from captured video (720 X 480) and open it up in PhotoShop.

Then, try to upscale that same image to 200dpi at 1920 X 1080.

It doesn't work so nicely now, does it? It looks desatured and very fuzzy.

Granted, Blu ray players have built-in filters to TRY to make upscales as nice as possible but the point is the same... You're stretching pixels from video that was never intended to be blown up to hi-def. With live-action, this will be particularly bad. Characters and objects will noticeably lose detail. Live-action characters will look like their faces are made of wax or that they had face-lift procedures.

With thick-lined animation upscale may not be so bad -- 1960s Hanna-Barbera animation probably won't suffer much --, but with anything else that has fine-line detail you will definitely see a lot of fuzziness and loss of detail.