Spider-Man 3

[ShyViolet]

My pleasure rebelrex!!


It's true, maybe I'm seeing this movie more objectively now. It was definetely lacking the story department....even though it had some top-notch scenes. (particularly the Venom ones.)

But yeah...NOT enough Venom.

NOT enough good Spidey vs. Symbiote Spidey

Sandman's character was one too many villains in an already crowded script, which shortchanged him as well as Church's awsome performance.

I think Raimi purposely overdid the whole Venom "Peter Parker is an egotistical jerk" thing to really bring it home to audiences (as Parker is already so "soft" that making him more assertive might not have the intended "evil" affect) but he just went way over the top.


The film was all over the place script-wise and to make matters worse it still under-used Bryce, Topher, JK Simmons AND Dylan Baker as Curtis Conners. (and here I was so sure he'd have a bigger part after his brief appearance in 2) Some things are just unforgivable, and that's one of them.

[Vernadyn]

Just thought I'd chime in with my take on the action scenes. I've seen better, but I've also seen worse (such as Batman Begins, which I liked, but not as much as the Burton ones). What's interesting to me is that it was very hard to follow the first Peter/New Goblin fight in the theater, but it looked fine when I saw it in the 8-minute preview on my computer.

[ShyViolet]

Interesting! Wonder if that had to do with the digital SFX?


I got a Spidey 3 poster today! It's the original teaser one, with him crouching on the roof in the rain. (Crouching Spidey, hidden Venom! or something.... )


J/K


It's such a cool poster. Wish the film (much as I liked parts of it) had lived up to that promise.

[Daniel]

Ooh, I love that scene! Lucky, Vi!

[ShyViolet]

Thanks Dan! It was on sale at Wal-Mart for $4.57 (plus tax of course. ) They also had lots of other Spidey posters for that price, like the Red Spidey/Black Spidey dual poster, but I liked this one best!

[Daniel]

No prob, Vi. Sounds like you got a good deal!

[ShyViolet]

I saw Spidey 3 today...again!!


It's taken me three times to see how truly cringingly bad Tobey was, how disorganized the script was, how much the new score blew compared to Elfman's.


Still loved Venom, however.


(Plus Sandman's first scene, when he's rising up and transforming--still takes my breath away. )



I don't think Tobey's a bad actor. He was pretty decent in Spidey 2. I think it's obvious: he didn't care at all about this film. He obviously was not investing himself. He might as well have carried a sign throughout: "I did it for the money." Maybe he thinks he has a big career ahead of him without Spider-Man, but not if he gives performances like this..... He can learn a lot form James and Topher....

[Ben]

Cue church organ music:

VIOLET HAS SEEN THE LIGHT!!




But, honestly...<I>three</I> times? Bet you go back again to check and make sure...

[Meg]

It's Superman Returns all over again!

[ShyViolet]

Ha ha....

Yeah well....



Also, does anyone know what's up with THAT franchise, is the next Supes film officially greenlighted yet?

[ShyViolet]

Spider-Man 2...the way G-d intended.


On YouTube many of Elfman's music cues were edited back into the film (no audible dialogue however) to show what the film would have been like had Raimi not butchered Elfman's score.....


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=onsMJwfn ... ed&search=


This is the scene where Harry finds out his dad is really the Goblin, etc....
SO much better than what we saw....


Here's what the editor had to say about it:

Code: Select all

[b]
   Like Part V, this one the Raimi's most incomprehensible move. While Elfman original's work stayed in the film from Dafoe's apparition to the Goblin mask surprising Franco, the beginning and the end of the cue were replaced. For the beginning, Elfman went for very low and unsettling bassoons, mysterious horns effects and a bass, creating a sense of tension, dawning craziness and obsession. In the final cut, some percussive sound effects were used instead; they are effective but not really original.
The most absurd replacement concerns the end on the scene. When Harry discovers his father's weapons, the final cut uses the track "Specter of the Goblin" from the first film. What Elfman proposes is very respectful to the same track but adds more dry brasses and twirling strings, insisting again on the madness and craziness to come.

I understand people saying that it was Raimi's movie that he did whatever he wanted with it but I just don't agree with that vision. What Elfman gave him is technically and artistically superior to the temp track but is also close enough to it (without being a rip-off) to satisfy everyone. There is no rational or artistic reason to prefer the temp track. We never got Raimi's version on what happened but it's this kind of comparison that makes Elfman's anger justifiable.[/b]

Also: anyone else wonder how in Spidey 3 Harry suddenly learned all his dad's technological secrets and fighting moves despite knowing nothing about any of it before?

[Ben]

The words "holes" and "plot" come to mind, in several instances.

Frankly, the Spidey series needs some fresh direction.

[ShyViolet]

Tobey needs to stop acting/looking like he's 16, stop the eye-bugging, nostril-flaring, and um, voice-cracking that's he's done in the last 3 films.

Bryce, Topher and Dylan Baker MUST be brought back. (How about Dylan Baker finally getting to play that lizard guy? )


Did anyone else get a feeling (just a theory) that when Peter was seriously "possessed" by the Venom symbiote there were a bunch of deleted scenes between him and his girl next door neighbor Ursela? It seemed to me that more was going on between them than just Ursela "baking cookies." Or is it just me?




More Venom please. Topher basically smolders in his role and kicks Tobey off the screen in every scene they're in.


I like sympathetic villains but sometimes I think Raimi takes it too far. It was great with showing Venom/Eddie as a slimy yet pathetic rival reporter. It was just way too mawkish to show Sandman as "some guy who just wanted medical care for his dying daughter."

And even though Dock Ock rules, I could've done without the "Oh it's inhibitor chip getting destroyed that made him evil, etc...."


It works much better with one main villain. Dock Ock and Goblin were both basically the villains in 1 and 2.
3 had way too many backstories (Brock, Sandman, Harry) for bad guys....it's OK with one, but three villains-who-aren't-really-villains?

Just didn't work.


(Venom was the only truly scary one, but Raimi kind of diluted him as well. In the cartoon--and the comic I guess--Brock steals the Venom suit from Peter. He starts to use it for his own purposes. In the movie, it just falls on him or something, not his fault, etc....)

[Ben]

'xactly.

[ShyViolet]

Read today in Empire mag review of S3 (sorry, article not online yet) that the real reason Venom isn't in the film much is because, believe it or not, Raimi does not care for the character at all and didn't want him in the movie in the first place.
He had to be pursuaded by others to include him at all.


Now that would explain things, not only why Topher/Venom got so little screen time but also why the whole "the hero must face the darkness within himself" that was promoted in the trailers was barely in the film.

Most importantly, why the "Peter Parker turns into a self-absorbed jerk" plot point was treated like one collussal punchline by Raimi.

From the jazz club scene to Peter strutting down the street John Travolta style--it never felt "real". It didn't even feel like a movie, but a comedy sketch.

Actually, in some ways I thought the 90's Spidey cartoon handled the Venom storyline much better than here. (Particularly that they showed way more of Brock's story. )