The Princess and the Frog

[Dusterian]

Thank you Foxtale. I can't think of anymore than I already said, I just hope that even though it is new, it will have some of the old.

Once, the crocodile does have the cartoonyness of thosee animals, but is not as beautiful, not as stylized, not as fairy tale-like. He doesn't look as graceful and eloquent as the background, and yes, it can be done with the lines, it's not just because he's large. Same for the frogs but you can't really see them. Enchanted's animation was pretty, but not as good, as well done, as well animated as the past fairy tale feature films.

[scofo]

Ok guys, I wasn't going to jump into this, knowing I will get blasted for what I am going to say, but whatever.

First of all, animators don't just "forget" how to animate 2D, it's not like a machine or a program that keeps updating, it's a pencil and paper, and the fundamentals are STILL being used in 3D animation. I am an animation student, and it takes quite a bit for it to disappear.

Also Dusterian, you seem to be looking for something to be wrong with the movie; whether it be the design, story, coloring etc ; when you have ONLY seen one promotional image and this one screen capture that was scanned / photographed. You are awfully quick to make up your mind on how great this movie will be.

I can agree that it's scary to wonder how this will do, but it's Disney and John Lasseter, calm down and breathe, they know how to make a film. By you saying they aren't "beautiful" enough to be like the previous one is somewhat naive to say because the princess films were all helmed by different directors, designers, so on and so forth.

Enchanted was not animated by Disney animators, they used another studio to animate the film, as far as I know, Princess and the Frog is being animated in-studio, meaning that the work process is inside Disney. Enchanted also had a schedule to follow, there was live action footage, and so getting the animation done quickly means a quicker release; whereas TPatF is entirely animated so there is no outside factors like Enchanted.

Everyone needs to calm down and just look at it and be thankful that they are doing this using traditional animation. We could be getting Chicken Little 2.

Scott

[Whippet Angel]

My thoughts exactly ^___^

[Once Upon A Dream]

Once, the crocodile does have the cartoonyness of thosee animals, but is not as beautiful, not as stylized, not as fairy tale-like. He doesn't look as graceful and eloquent as the background, and yes, it can be done with the lines, it's not just because he's large. Same for the frogs but you can't really see them. Enchanted's animation was pretty, but not as good, as well done, as well animated as the past fairy tale feature films.

Hmm,he does looks more like a character from Lion King and Bambi then from a Disney Princess movie,we can't really see the frogs so maybe we should wait more.
Maybe it's not incredibly most done (Giselle's fingers for exmaple) but still,it's pretty.
It's not that I"m not exited or anything but... they"re making this film just to add a black princess for the Princess line,like there's not enough girls in this line already,they made a film and decided to make the heroine black for a change (If let's they whould made Rapunzel black) then it was okay but making a whole movie just to sell some more Princess stuff? turst me,of the Princess line wasn't sucessful then they whould had never thought of making this film.
I"m also getting concerned that when Tiana's and Rapunzel's films will be out (also Merida's) they"ll focuse on Giselle,Tiana,Rapunzel and Merida insted of Cinderella,Aurora,Belle,Ariel and the other old and modern princesses.
Again,I"m exited for the film and I think I whould like Tiana (Also I know that we whould have got films like The Wild insted of this) but still.

[Whippet Angel]

they"re making this film just to add a black princess for the Princess line,like there's not enough girls in this line already,they made a film and decided to make the heroine black for a change

I seriously doubt that it's their main reason for making this film, but it certainly wouldn't hurt to add a bit more diversity to the Princess line.

[Once Upon A Dream]

they"re making this film just to add a black princess for the Princess line,like there's not enough girls in this line already,they made a film and decided to make the heroine black for a change

I seriously doubt that it's their main reason for making this film, but it certainly wouldn't hurt to add a bit more diversity to the Princess line.

I"m not saying that it's bad to add a black princess but making just for that? I"m really sure this is the main reason.
But I"m exited for the film.

[Whippet Angel]

I'm really sure it isn't, but I'm very excited as well.

[Ben]

Going back to scofo's comments (nice to see you drop in!) and I agree...I got a nice warm and fuzzy feeling looking at those crocs. Whatever they look, they feel old-school Disney, and that's a <I>good thing</I>.

Although I agree with what scofo said, I should point out to him that, while <I>technically</I> Enchanted's animation was "out-sourced" to James Baxter animation, Mr Baxter is himself the man responsible for animating Belle, Quasimodo and Rafiki, among others, while Disney actually assigned Andreas Deja and Mark Henn to the project too. So while the animation was drawn and colored <I>at</I> "James Baxter Animation", it was drawn <I>by</I> Disney artists through and through.

[scofo]

Going back to scofo's comments (nice to see you drop in!) and I agree...I got a nice warm and fuzzy feeling looking at those crocs. Whatever they look, they feel old-school Disney, and that's a <I>good thing</I>.

Although I agree with what scofo said, I should point out to him that, while <I>technically</I> Enchanted's animation was "out-sourced" to James Baxter animation, Mr Baxter is himself the man responsible for animating Belle, Quasimodo and Rafiki, among others, while Disney actually assigned Andreas Deja and Mark Henn to the project too. So while the animation was drawn and colored <I>at</I> "James Baxter Animation", it was drawn <I>by</I> Disney artists through and through.

Yeah, sorry about that, I sort of assumed that, the animation was terrific, but I am sure the quality was not at the level of the features, when time is taken into consideration.

That being said, the image looks very promising, looks like classic disney!

Thanks Ben, you remember me? HAHA well I don't have much time to be around here, too busy animating in Oakville.

[Dusterian]

First of all, animators don't just "forget" how to animate 2D, it's not like a machine or a program that keeps updating, it's a pencil and paper, and the fundamentals are STILL being used in 3D animation. I am an animation student, and it takes quite a bit for it to disappear.

I mean they might forget how they did it the Disney way. I don't want 2-D to just be the same 2-D for every company. Disney pushed the envelope and developed their own techniques and tricks and teachings.

Also Dusterian, you seem to be looking for something to be wrong with the movie; whether it be the design, story, coloring etc ; when you have ONLY seen one promotional image and this one screen capture that was scanned / photographed. You are awfully quick to make up your mind on how great this movie will be.

Sorry, would you please point out to me where I said this movie won't be great? I just talked about how the film looked un-fairy-tale-like and not as beautiful as the previous fairy tale classics.

By you saying they aren't "beautiful" enough to be like the previous one is somewhat naive to say because the princess films were all helmed by different directors, designers, so on and so forth.

Right, and they all managed to have something in their screen caps I'm not seeing in the screen caps of "The Princess and the Frog". They look more cartoony and are just missing something.

I don't know why you talked about Enchanted not being done inside Disney. Personally, that film may not have been as well animated as the other features, but the animation still had beauty and fairy-tale quality that I'm not seeing in "The Princess and the Frog". Admittedly, if they are going in a different direction on purpose, alright, but they said they wanted to make it like their traditional fairy tale films...so I would only think that they would want to, you know, do that. Also, it's just my preference for a more elegant, fairy tale look.

But you and Ben seem to think the picture evokes classic Disney. Yea, maybe "Bambi" and "The Rescuers", which the film is rumouredly inspired by, but not any fairy tale films...which it's supposed to be.

[Ben]

Guys, Ron 'n' John are the guys that gave us The Great Mouse Detective, The Little Mermaid, Aladdin, Hercules and, yes, even Treasure Planet.

They know what they're doing.

You're never going to get a "classic" fairytale picture out of something set in 1930s New Orleans, anyway, so maybe it's best to stop attacking the look of the film. Let them get on with it and try something new and unique, and <I>non-formulaic</I>.

The picture now has a good release slot at Christmas, so if it's going to work, it has the best chances. I hear what Dusty's saying, but let's see what the first trailers look like before we start harping on about tone.

[scofo]

I mean they might forget how they did it the Disney way. I don't want 2-D to just be the same 2-D for every compamy. Disney pushed the envelope and developed their own techniques and tricks and teachings.

I understand what you are getting at, but what you have to realize is that with each feature, many artists were dropped after the feature they were working on. So it's not like they were the same people throughout. Sure there are the ones that stay around, but I don't think they made the movies with a formula in terms of techniques, tricks and teachings.

It's different for every film.

Sorry, would you please point out to me where I said this movie won't be great? I just talked about how the film looked un-fairy-tale-like and not as beautiful as the previous fairy tale classics.

Sorry, I didn't mean it to say you thought it was ugly, but you're awfully quick to jump the gun and say this doesn't look very "fairy-tale" like they did before.

Well, compare him to this croc and tell me they don't look in the same vein as previous?

http://media.monstersandcritics.com/art ... relief.jpg

What you have to realize is that if they simply mimic what was previously done, they are not being innovative, and making their own thing. It will come across as a poor imitation of a previous classic.

Right, and they all managed to have something in their screen caps I'm not seeing in the screen caps of "The Princess and the Frog". They look more cartoony and are just missing something.

Screen cap. Only one image from the film has been released that is a capture from it. The promotional image of Tiana on the balcony is for magazines and press releases, but certainly is not a still from the movie.

I don't know why you talked about Enchanted not being done inside Disney. Personally, that film may not have been as well animated as the other features, but the animation still had beauty and fairy-tale quality that I'm not seeing in "The Princess and the Frog". Admittedly, if they are going in a different direction on purpose, alright, but they said they wanted to make it like their traditional fairy tale films...so I would only think that they would want to, you know, do that. Also, it's just my preference for a more elegant, fairy tale look.

They want to make it like their traditional fairy tale films. They didn't say we want it to look like them, they said they want it like it. Disney is in a business where they are wanting to make great films, and by imitating the previous, they aren't moving forward.

Enchanted was heavily inspired by Alphonse Mucha, and yes it was done very well, but the main character was not rememberable, her face was stale and bland. Nothing for me to remember her bye. With the designs in this film, it's a little more solid and caricaturistic.

But you and Ben seem to think the picture evokes classic Disney. Yea, maybe "Bambi" and "The Rescuers", which the film is rumouredly inspired by, but not any fairy tale films...which it's supposed to be.

I see Peter Pan, Bambi, Fantasia (the old), Dumbo, Great Mouse Detective, and Rescuers. I can imagine that it's written to be like the previous fairy tales, but I would hope its not designed to the "T" to look like them, because quite honestly, they are rather stiff and lacking when it comes to movement in the human characters.

And Ben, I promise I am not being a little fight starter, just some opinions and all.

[Ben]

Gotcha, sco!

[Dusterian]

Well scofo, firstly that crocodile isn't from a fairy tale. I mean, it sort of is because Peter Pan has a fairy and is a fantasy, but it's not considered a fairy tale. Pinocchio is more like a fairy tale. Anyway, do you see how even that croc is more beautiful, more...delicate, elegant than the alligator? Yes, the alligator is fat, but I think it is the lines and style that make the croc look so, well, fancy, while the alligator looks more cartoony, less polished, and not all that different from many gators I've seen. It looks more Don Bluth than Disney, a criticism of Enchanted but at least Enchanted had fairy-tale stylization.

But you are right, it's just for right now, with one cap, and a lot of these are just for promotion. I must say, I certainly hope the art gets better as it goes along.

As for being a fire starter, I think I'm more of that, but sparking debate lets us see other views and think differently. It gets us closer to getting what we want, and not putting up with mediocrity or just plain crap. And it makes things exciting.

[Meg]

As for being a fire starter, I think I'm more of that, but sparking debate lets us see other views and think differently.

I agree - a well-thought out debate makes for a quite interesting read, as long as it doesn't turn into an actual fight.