Garfield

Post by **Ben** » April 12th, 2005, 2:41 pm

Ha, that Musker and Clements, modelling villains on their old bosses, huh?

What a gas.

Post by **Dacey** » April 12th, 2005, 4:06 pm

Goodness, this has become the "Villain Debate Thread".

And it's all because I mentioned "Stuart Little 2".

But since we're on the subject, I must confess that one of my favorite NON-Disney villains is Eris from "Sinbad: Legend of the Seven Seas". She's just amazing, isn't she? Sexy, scary, and she has that sense of humor. And she's a goddess. Yeah, she'd outdo Hades anytime in my view.

Not that Hades isn't cool (hot?) or anything. He's just a tad overrated, IMHO.

Post by **Macaluso** » April 12th, 2005, 4:28 pm

pfft. Hades is so much better than Eris.

Post by **Guardstone** » April 13th, 2005, 5:43 am

That's the kind of remark I'd expect from Violet, not from you, Jane!

Sorry, have to disagree with you, Hades wins by a longshot. Eris is just a bored and spoiled goddess, the whole thing with Sinbad is just entertainment for her, and it shows, she doesn't have her heart in it.
Now Hades, he's got a bigger plan and he's going for it (and he's got the fiery temper to match his hair and actually pull it off). It's all or nothing for him!
Eris just needs to get herself a better hobby...

Post by **ShyViolet** » April 13th, 2005, 5:26 pm

Ha ha....

Well, actually, even though I like Eris a lot (ESPECIALLY how she's animated) I do agree that Hades is a better villain...my problem with Eris was that you never really knew WHY she did what she did, she just wanted to throw the cosmos into "chaos"--what for? Even though she had a definete cruelty about her, her character just was never fleshed out--OK, what's her story? What does she really want? In this way she's like Shan-Yu--OK, he's evil, that's been established. What next?

Michelle Pheiffer just added to this problem. In many interviews she said: "I didn't really want to make her "evil", but playful." Uch! What the heck is she a VILLAIN for, then? It doesn't really seem like Michelle had a lot of direction for this role. Her attraction to Sinbad is interesting but not enough was made of it, thus it falls flat. (I couldn't stand Michelle in Prince of Egypt BTW. I don't know why Katzenberg keeps casting her.)

I do like Hades more, although personally I think the character owes more to James Woods' performance than to Musker and Clements' story.
Hades is not just evil but CRUEL and SEDUCTIVE at the same time. Plus he seems so calm and just like that he loses his temper! James Woods did so much for that role when you really look at it though. If you think about it, the Hades character suffers from some of Eris's flaws--you never really know why he hates Zeus or Hercules or anyone else so much. But Woods was able to provide that 3-dimensionality that really added to the character--Hades had a sort of human desperation to be the best at everything and to have everyone's respect--you can relate to that, that's part of what makes Hades so interesting. This might sound weird but in some ways I found Hades more likable than Hercules, who kind of annoyed me at certain times. Heck, Hades was SEXY. If I were Meg, I'd've stayed with him in a second.

Post by **ShyViolet** » April 13th, 2005, 5:31 pm

Ha, that Musker and Clements, modelling villains on their old bosses, huh?

What a gas

Maybe Bob Iger will be the next "villain"

Post by **Macaluso** » April 13th, 2005, 5:52 pm

Hades definitally had a reason for doing what he did.

He was casted down from olympus into the hell by Zeus. Obviously they don't explain why, but that's not really very important. The point is, he doesn't get to "loung around" up in the heavens like the rest of the Gods, and instead has his hands full all the time dealing with all the souls that go to hell. That's what he's mad about. He gets the short end of the stick.

Post by **Josh** » April 13th, 2005, 5:55 pm

[message deleted; it was kind of what Macaluso said but posted a few seconds after his message]

Post by **Guardstone** » April 13th, 2005, 6:27 pm

ShyViolet wrote:
Ha, that Musker and Clements, modelling villains on their old bosses, huh?

What a gas
Maybe Bob Iger will be the next "villain"

Well, here's a quick impression of what that would look like, with a hint of Hercules art direction

Post by **Ben** » April 13th, 2005, 7:12 pm

That's pretty cool!

I wonder what their next movie is, though I would wager that it'll be Eisner that gets the brunt of their next villain's look!

Post by **ShyViolet** » April 13th, 2005, 8:40 pm

I think Roger Meyers Jr. in the Simpsons (the Itchy and Scratchy executive guy with the cigar) is modeled after Eisner.

He's an impulsive, sarcastic, somewhat aloof and hands-on producer.

It's just another one of the many Disney references that appear in the show, particularly with regard to Itchy and Scratchy.

Ex: Itchy and Scratchy Land

Homer (after being hauled in by I and S security guards)

Ex: At the historical park

When hiring Sharry Bobbins:

Post by **Ben** » April 14th, 2005, 9:34 am

I rememeber the Sharry Bobbins - very, very funny!

Post by **Guardstone** » April 14th, 2005, 1:59 pm

Ben wrote:That's pretty cool!

I wonder what their next movie is, though I would wager that it'll be Eisner that gets the brunt of their next villain's look!

That reminds me of Dave Pruiksma's little parabel story The Emperor's New Greed

Post by **Ben** » April 14th, 2005, 2:45 pm

Yeah, I remember that (slightly biased) piece!

Post by **Dacey** » April 14th, 2005, 4:08 pm

This thread has gotten SO off-topic!

Now, now, Eris didn't need a reason for what she was doing. She's a goddess of chaos for crying out loud. She was just doing her job, you might say.

Besides, Eris starts the Trojan War. Hades would never be able to do that, now would he?

Garfield

Villains