Terminator Franchise

[Ben]

"Terminator 1" = he means The Terminator.

T2 = 1991. Jurassic Park = 1993. That’s two years later, not a "neato period within a year".


It’s funny what is in the Cameron timeline and what isn’t now. When T3 was about to come out, Arnie said he did it because they had Cameron's blessing, or he wouldn’t have done it. So that counts T3 as somewhat official. Salvation is the odd one out for not having a direct link - other than the "Arnie" one shot cameo - but even that does follow on from T3 even if it was supposed to be the start of a new trilogy.

Then we get the weird stepchild Genysis, which again Cameron said "was the Terminator sequel I would have made" back when it came out, even though that did little to save it and, despite actually being something of an intriguing story, the recast characters and alternate/rebooted timeline doesn’t allow it to fit into the chronology.

Which brings us to Dark Fate, the sequel that Cameron actually did end up making, and basically using one of Genysis' characters. Rand has been watching the T movies fairly recently and when Fate was discussed, I wondered whether to play that after T2, which is where is supposedly follows on, albeit with a time jump, or after Salvation. In the end, I question the reasoning of saying T3 and Salvation didn’t happen, since precisely because of that time jump at the start of Fate, one can watch the complete timeline of Terminator, T2, T3 and Salvation, and then see Fate as a way of jumping back earlier in that same timeline.

Not only because Fate can do this is why you should watch the films in this way, but because it, in its own way, also messes up much of what made the first two films so good, and so one is better off to see what came before, and the innovations of T3 and Salvation, over the muchly regurgitated Dark Fate. It’s basically like Superman Returns: you can watch as Superman III and IV happened, or choose not to. But since Fate changes and uses so much from the other films, it perhaps feels "more complete" to see it, and it’s time jump, after the initial four films. Genesis, as I say, is a completely different timeline/universe (other than Arnie) and will forever be left like The Amazing Spider-Man with that open-ended never-gonna-get-a-follow-up ending...

Although, again, as much as I love the idea of the T films, they are all really dumb. If Skynet really wanted to win, all they had to do was send back another Terminator before the first one, or send multiple ones to finish Sarah, or her ancestors, off.

For a world-conquering artificial intelligence, that AI was a bit low on the intelligence!

[EricJ]

"Terminator 1" = he means The Terminator.

So that NON anal-retentive people don't get confused about whether you're talking about the entire franchise.
(Perhaps if I had said "T1", as Violet had.)

It’s funny what is in the Cameron timeline and what isn’t now. When T3 was about to come out, Arnie said he did it because they had Cameron's blessing, or he wouldn’t have done it. So that counts T3 as somewhat official. Salvation is the odd one out for not having a direct link - other than the "Arnie" one shot cameo - but even that does follow on from T3 even if it was supposed to be the start of a new trilogy.

Although, keep in mind, this was the same Arnie who told us that disappointed moviegoers were "walking out of" disastrous early screenings of Jurassic Park, and that Last Action Hero was the quality movie of summer '93.

And again, going back to the beginning of the thread, Salvation, Genisys, and Rise of the Fanboys only exist for TWO reasons:
Bankruptcy Sales, and Wishful Thinking.

[Bill1978]

Seeing this thread pop up now makes me want to watch the last 2 recent Terminator. The trailer for Genysis turned me right off the franchise cause I wasn't impressed with the Evil John approach taken. But I also remember Salvation confused the heck out of me with what was happening in the timelines. Which is a problem I have with movie franchises based around time travel. When you think about the overall story across the movies, it starts to get way way too complicated and messy. Time travel within one movie is fine and most nail it to a certain extent. But across multiple films and with different writers? That's a totally different kettle of fish.

[Dacey]

Genysis is lively and fun. I'm not sure if I'd call it "great," but it's definitely likable, and with a jaw-dropping fight between Arnold and "himself" that didn't get nearly enough hype at the time it came out. I would've been game for follow-ups to that.

Dark Fate, on the other hand, is such a jaded, cynical mess with "modern" updates which aren't even updates (this has always been a feminist-friendly franchise, so to behave as though they were "breaking new ground" here was stupid) that it infuriated me in the theater, which was a shame, since it does have some solid action and Arnold once again in good form. It's not even a "sequel" to the first two films. That storyline is "wrapped up" before the opening titles even come up.

But hey, makes perfect sense for Sarah Connor to say "And let me guess, then you were told that a MAN from the future would save all mankind" when the MAN in question was her own son, so why wouldn't she play the gender card with resentment there?

[Ben]

Xactly!

Like I said above, Genysis was intriguing, and I’d have been up for more. Seemed like a good way to reboot things, but it’s definitely now a standalone since Fate ignores it.

But exactly for the reasons you say, I think one should view T3 and Salvation before Fate, not only because they are largely "better" films than Fate, but because Fate still works as a recalibrated continuation of the original Cameron timeline.

Some minor good elements aside, I found Fate to be almost hugely disappointing, but it certainly *is* a direct sequel: too many callbacks, from Connor's voiceover, her very character and backstory for starters, are a consequence of events from the first two films especially.

[EricJ]

But hey, makes perfect sense for Sarah Connor to say "And let me guess, then you were told that a MAN from the future would save all mankind" when the MAN in question was her own son, so why wouldn't she play the gender card with resentment there?

It's certainly in KEEPING with the style of James Cameron's faux-feminist girls-with-guns misogyny--
If Linda Hamilton hadn't delivered that line, you could just hear Sigourney Weaver's voice.

[ShyViolet]

Skynet takes over!


https://youtu.be/_Wlsd9mljiU


For some reason I keep thinking of Joshua the supercomputer from War Games. I guess he didn’t “learn” anything after all...


https://youtu.be/NHWjlCaIrQo


Lol j/k

[Ben]

"Would you like to play a gAme?"

Gosh, I haven’t seen that film in such a long time!

[ShyViolet]

Yeah, it’s a great movie. .


“The only winning move is NOT TO PLAY.” Hmm, is there a way I could get my Siri app to talk like that? Lol. Less annoying than the regular voice, that’s for sure.

https://youtu.be/KXzNo0vR_dU

[EricJ]

Skynet takes over!
https://youtu.be/_Wlsd9mljiU

Ohh, I thought it was going to be the old Terminator 3D ride from Universal Studios:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AIoeMLwEIDM
...Su-perrr!

(Which, Universal being Universal, has since been replaced by a none-too-bad Jason Bourne stage/3D show.)

[ShyViolet]

Only recently noticed how much John Conner (Nick Stahl) from T3 not only resembles Kyle Reese (Michael Biehn) from T1 but also talks and even moves like him. I guess that’s why they picked Stahl; great casting. . Another element to add to the mystery of why they axed him for Bale. (Well, I guess they wanted the “big name” value. But unlike Stahl, Bale didn’t suggest Reese in the slightest. And I don’t exactly mean acting-wise, but more his voice/manner/body type.)


Kyle Reese: “Terminator is out there” monologue


https://youtu.be/7Ntksk9SpPs


John Conner from ending of T3


https://youtu.be/UaeNI97PeQs


Terminator: Salvation trailer from 2009


https://youtu.be/-Czz-TcWCkA

[ShyViolet]

Skynet takes over!
https://youtu.be/_Wlsd9mljiU

Ohh, I thought it was going to be the old Terminator 3D ride from Universal Studios:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AIoeMLwEIDM
...Su-perrr!

(Which, Universal being Universal, has since been replaced by a none-too-bad Jason Bourne stage/3D show.)

Oh wow I remember this! . Was there during summer 1999. Totally forgot about that “Superrr!” lady. Lol. Really fun ride.