We now return to... "Indy 4, what were they thinkin!?"
Indiana Jones And The Kingdom Of The Crystal Skull
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Wow, I had no idea that the Darabont script was along the same lines. I can't believe, for what seems to have been used and changed in the final film, that he didn't get some kind of co-story credit or thanks to.
Given the right execution, the ideas you just mentioned above sound fantastic...if it would have been done right I would have gone along with saucer men and such just because the <I>spirit</I> of the piece sounds so much more in keeping with what an Indiana Jones film is supposed to be like.
Honestly, I truly think that Lucas called the shots on this and that Spielberg, for whatever reasons, just wasn't interested any more. As I said in the review, both he and Ford were happy with Darabont's script (my saying that on the understanding that it was a completely different concept) but it was Lucas who kept fluffing about. By the time ol' George had finally settled down, I think Spielberg was basically tired of the whole thing and just wanted it over with, while Ford was in such a need of a sure-fire hit that he also kind of just went along with it, figuring that if Lucas and Spielberg were okay with it that it must be pretty good.
Well, it wasn't pretty good. Like you, there's something about it that makes us watch again...I actually think it's a secret desire for it to be so much better than it is - if we watch it enough times it maybe won't be as bad as last time. It's a very poor relation to the Jones films of old, and the mere fact that they just let Indy sit that rocket chase out rather than fight on it - which is <I>exactly</I> what the film needed at that precise moment - just shows how unconnected they have become with the source and how better off they would have been listening to a younger, smarter and more honest to the concept writer (and no director sluch himself), "fan" or not.
On the BD release: it's going to be interesting how they package these. If they're smart they'll put out an original trilogy set for two reasons: for those who just bought Crappy Skull on BD, and for those who really don't want to have the three original adventures tainted by the new one. It could also go that way, of course, if Spielberg is privately unhappy with Skull and just wants an original set anyway. No doubt there will be a four-movie collection too, but I'm betting there original three get their own configuration.
Now, just to make us mad, they'll also put out a mega set with all the extras from the first and second DVD sets, plus all the original Indy documentaries that were previously released on VHS and LaserDisc...but that we'll have to buy Skull again to have the whole thing. Then of course, when Indy 5 and 6 come out (as is the plan), we'll just keep buying.
LucasMerch...gotta love it!
Given the right execution, the ideas you just mentioned above sound fantastic...if it would have been done right I would have gone along with saucer men and such just because the <I>spirit</I> of the piece sounds so much more in keeping with what an Indiana Jones film is supposed to be like.
Honestly, I truly think that Lucas called the shots on this and that Spielberg, for whatever reasons, just wasn't interested any more. As I said in the review, both he and Ford were happy with Darabont's script (my saying that on the understanding that it was a completely different concept) but it was Lucas who kept fluffing about. By the time ol' George had finally settled down, I think Spielberg was basically tired of the whole thing and just wanted it over with, while Ford was in such a need of a sure-fire hit that he also kind of just went along with it, figuring that if Lucas and Spielberg were okay with it that it must be pretty good.
Well, it wasn't pretty good. Like you, there's something about it that makes us watch again...I actually think it's a secret desire for it to be so much better than it is - if we watch it enough times it maybe won't be as bad as last time. It's a very poor relation to the Jones films of old, and the mere fact that they just let Indy sit that rocket chase out rather than fight on it - which is <I>exactly</I> what the film needed at that precise moment - just shows how unconnected they have become with the source and how better off they would have been listening to a younger, smarter and more honest to the concept writer (and no director sluch himself), "fan" or not.
On the BD release: it's going to be interesting how they package these. If they're smart they'll put out an original trilogy set for two reasons: for those who just bought Crappy Skull on BD, and for those who really don't want to have the three original adventures tainted by the new one. It could also go that way, of course, if Spielberg is privately unhappy with Skull and just wants an original set anyway. No doubt there will be a four-movie collection too, but I'm betting there original three get their own configuration.
Now, just to make us mad, they'll also put out a mega set with all the extras from the first and second DVD sets, plus all the original Indy documentaries that were previously released on VHS and LaserDisc...but that we'll have to buy Skull again to have the whole thing. Then of course, when Indy 5 and 6 come out (as is the plan), we'll just keep buying.
LucasMerch...gotta love it!
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Other writers like Jeb Stuart (Die Hard, The Fugitive) and Jeffrey Boam (Last Crusade, sadly died in 1990) were attached to write at some point according to The Making of Indiana Jones book. Maybe Darabont didn't get credit because all the ideas in his script that remained (i.e. the bad ones) were preset by Lucas, just like how Lucas preset that Last Crusade was going to involve the Holy Grail. The new thing he did bring that wasn't there before (I think) was bringing Marion back. She's more active and tougher in the Darabont version. And she's married to a competing archaeologist, though of course he is dispatched at the end in the alien slaughter, leaving room for Indy.
Oh, and to be clear, I wasn't insulting Darabont for being a fan. It's true that fans can be silly in an AICN kind of way, but Frank Darabont is Frank Darabont, and boy does he know how to make movies.
Also, Darabont could have very well written something very different as an earlier draft, but I think the leaked version is different enough. The plot is more complex, no Mutt, no Spalko, no Mac (although there is a Mac-like Russian who ends up surviving.)
Your third paragraph perfectly captures the subtext one gets when reading interviews with Spielberg, Lucas, and Ford in the Making Indiana Jones book. And it is saying something when Darabont says he would love to work with Spielberg in the future, but not Lucas.
www.slashfilm.com/2007/04/17/frank-dara ... pointment/
Oh, and to be clear, I wasn't insulting Darabont for being a fan. It's true that fans can be silly in an AICN kind of way, but Frank Darabont is Frank Darabont, and boy does he know how to make movies.
Also, Darabont could have very well written something very different as an earlier draft, but I think the leaked version is different enough. The plot is more complex, no Mutt, no Spalko, no Mac (although there is a Mac-like Russian who ends up surviving.)
Your third paragraph perfectly captures the subtext one gets when reading interviews with Spielberg, Lucas, and Ford in the Making Indiana Jones book. And it is saying something when Darabont says he would love to work with Spielberg in the future, but not Lucas.
www.slashfilm.com/2007/04/17/frank-dara ... pointment/
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Looks like we're all in agreement! An Indy story with aliens would have worked...as I said, "given the right execution".
No, I wasn't suggesting Darabont being a "fan" was bad...my point was that was a good thing (my comment that he was "no director sluch" was a typo I just noticed. I should of course been "no director slouch")"
The more I hear about the Darabont script (Marion more active...you mean she had a <I>point</I> to being there in his version - yay!) the more I think I need to go download it and read during a quiet moment. Or I may come away feeling more disappointed that it didn't get past ol' George. Rival archeologist? Bring it on!
That it seems Spielberg was more excited about that early script (as I understand from the slashfilm link) speaks volumes.
Shame, shame, shame...just think how <I>great</I> this could have been!
No, I wasn't suggesting Darabont being a "fan" was bad...my point was that was a good thing (my comment that he was "no director sluch" was a typo I just noticed. I should of course been "no director slouch")"
The more I hear about the Darabont script (Marion more active...you mean she had a <I>point</I> to being there in his version - yay!) the more I think I need to go download it and read during a quiet moment. Or I may come away feeling more disappointed that it didn't get past ol' George. Rival archeologist? Bring it on!
That it seems Spielberg was more excited about that early script (as I understand from the slashfilm link) speaks volumes.
Shame, shame, shame...just think how <I>great</I> this could have been!
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Yes, it's our high expectations that were the problem. We haven't actually given any concrete examples of problems in the film. And Lucas has a great track record of bringing new versions of beloved film franchises to the big screen again. And he is exactly right that all of them are great. I mean Indiana Jones is his story. Just like his house is his house. So if he wants to paint his house green, even if everyone else thinks it should be red, guess what? He's gonna paint it Jar-Jar.
Seriously though, you're entitled to your opinion too! But everyone who's knocking us for not liking the film is not responding to our actual criticisms. They're either just saying "I liked it" and ignoring the details we're complaining about -- which is fine! Or they're attacking us -- "you're just haters", your expectations are unreasonably high", etc.
Seriously though, you're entitled to your opinion too! But everyone who's knocking us for not liking the film is not responding to our actual criticisms. They're either just saying "I liked it" and ignoring the details we're complaining about -- which is fine! Or they're attacking us -- "you're just haters", your expectations are unreasonably high", etc.
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When I saw it the first time I thought the acting was really wooden (and it might be) and it irked me. It didn't seem so bad the second time around. There's little things that irk me about each of the Indy movies. Raiders is great but doesn't get a free pass. Even it has moments of wooden acting (not that that's the sole complaint against Crappy Skull). Last Crusade, while not perfect either, is the one I have the least misgivings about.
I'm reading "Indiana Jones and the Philosopher's Stone" and it has the crystal skull in it. The book is from 1994.
I'm reading "Indiana Jones and the Philosopher's Stone" and it has the crystal skull in it. The book is from 1994.
Don't forget that there was also another book where Indy found Noah's Ark on Mt. Ararat. It was called Indiana Jones and the Great Deluge.
If they could have done a movie based on this (set during World War II) I probably would have had less problems with seeing that than another film that dealt with Spielberg's alien obsessions and George Lucas' desire to shoot "Howard the Duck 2."
At least it would have kept Indy's treasure search within the Biblical/religious artifact category instead of diverging into fortean territory.
(Not that I mind fortean/cryptological things... There's a lot modern science can't explain and frankly a lot about both the historical and biological timelines that is screwed up and mainstream science doesn't want to address because of its inherent orthodoxy and the fact that nobody likes the scrutiny that comes along with challenging the comfortable status quo that guarantees public/government/TAX-payer money.)
Sure, Crystal Skull made good money, but to many people it feels like "Howard the Duck."
(And they're releasing "Howard" on DVD pretty soon, too.)
If they could have done a movie based on this (set during World War II) I probably would have had less problems with seeing that than another film that dealt with Spielberg's alien obsessions and George Lucas' desire to shoot "Howard the Duck 2."
At least it would have kept Indy's treasure search within the Biblical/religious artifact category instead of diverging into fortean territory.
(Not that I mind fortean/cryptological things... There's a lot modern science can't explain and frankly a lot about both the historical and biological timelines that is screwed up and mainstream science doesn't want to address because of its inherent orthodoxy and the fact that nobody likes the scrutiny that comes along with challenging the comfortable status quo that guarantees public/government/TAX-payer money.)
Sure, Crystal Skull made good money, but to many people it feels like "Howard the Duck."
(And they're releasing "Howard" on DVD pretty soon, too.)
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But the "wooden acting" in Raiders, Doom (yes, it's there too) and Crusade was intentionally bringing back the acting styles of those 1930s serials. Nothing wrong with that, and the dialogue was actually written with those aspects in mind.
In Crappy Skull, everyone just felt like they were going through the motions. Ford seemed bored, Blanchett too theatrical in a film that plainly wasn't, Allen was wasted and didn't have anything to do, while Shia came over as someone who had just won a contest to be in an Indiana Jones movie, which in a sense he had.
In Crappy Skull, everyone just felt like they were going through the motions. Ford seemed bored, Blanchett too theatrical in a film that plainly wasn't, Allen was wasted and didn't have anything to do, while Shia came over as someone who had just won a contest to be in an Indiana Jones movie, which in a sense he had.
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Maybe the next one could be about Noah's Ark. If they could do one more Indy and do it right then go for it.GeorgeC wrote:Don't forget that there was also another book where Indy found Noah's Ark on Mt. Ararat. It was called Indiana Jones and the Great Deluge. If they could have done a movie based on this...
(And they're releasing "Howard" on DVD pretty soon, too.)
Have never bothered watching Howard the Duck and don't know if I want to.
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Poor Diane has a job trying to get them to be interested! They are indeed all flippant and clearly under pressure to be there. And bored?
Of course! It's days from the premiere, and they all only just got to see the final piece of junk they had made!
Funny how Lucas plugs the original trilogy again...maybe Indy IV was nothing more than a marketing ploy to revive interest in the much better, earlier movies!?
Of course! It's days from the premiere, and they all only just got to see the final piece of junk they had made!
Funny how Lucas plugs the original trilogy again...maybe Indy IV was nothing more than a marketing ploy to revive interest in the much better, earlier movies!?