Official Star Wars Thread

Post by **Ben** » May 23rd, 2005, 4:07 pm

I LOVE STAR WARS ON THE WHOLE.

But the prequels are not really Star Wars, and Sith is the least of them.

Post by **Christian** » May 23rd, 2005, 4:20 pm

There always has to be one person who doesn't like a movie. I remember when Lilo and Stitch came out and everyone loved it and were using it as proof that Disney could still make quality 2D films but at one board I frequent there was one person that hated it. "Lilo and Stitch was so boring! I could never stand to sit through it again. It just proved to me beyond all reasonable doubt that Disney is going downhill and will never, ever recover, etc., etc., etc."

Post by **Macaluso** » May 23rd, 2005, 7:53 pm

http://www.ytmnd.com/site_data//63000/63710/sound.mp3

Do yourselves a favor and listen to this song.
It's... OH my god. just... laksjdfl;asjkdf LISTEN

Post by **AniMan** » May 23rd, 2005, 8:59 pm

Ben wrote:I LOVE STAR WARS ON THE WHOLE.

But the prequels are not really Star Wars, and Sith is the least of them.

Ben, you have officially confirmed your insanity.

But seriously, "Sith is the least of them"? The LEAST of them?? I (and, apparently, millions of others) find that truly baffling.

Post by **AniMan** » May 23rd, 2005, 10:10 pm

Big opening - too much too fast. Rescuing Palpatine - very good, fun and adventurous with even some of the humor of the OT!

Then, everything went downhill. Padme is pregnant despite Anakin not being around (??) and everything starts happening BECAUSE IT HAS TO and not because it feels natural.

Anakin was gone months, not years. Last I checked, it only takes one time to get pregnant. You make it sound like he hasn't touched her since we saw them in Episode II. As far as everything starting "because it has to" I really don't see how you draw that conclusion, so I guess it's just how it felt to you. To me, it felt very, very natural, not tacked on.

I basically wanted more: more depth. More of Anakin/Vader on fire (and how did he manage to put himself out????), more Yoda (none of this "there is no try, only do" stuff - he just gives up when he loses his coat!!), more of Vader's birth (we've been waiting over 25 years and it's over in a matter of seconds?!?! Where's the pain? The close ups of the machine being welded to the flesh?), more deciding on what to do with the kids (quick - we're near the end of the film, named 'em, ship 'em out!) and more explanation all around (why is Leia a princess when her father is a senator, why is Luke given the name Skywalker, when it should have been Lars if they wanted to hide him, why is C-3PO's memory ordered wiped - there's no reason apart from trying to fix the holes in George's ill-fitting puzzle).

Wow, a load of stuff there that I can explain/refute:
1) Why the hell would you want more of Vader on fire? It was gruesome as it is, and you wanted more? GEEZ! And who the hell cares how he put himself out? Why is that a big deal? It wouldn't help the story any and it would be rather irrelevant.
2) Yoda could see that the fight might be a draw at best and it would be wise to live to fight another day, so to speak. He realized that he might not be able to defeat Palpatine under these circumstances (i.e. the emperor has a ****load of soldiers at his disposal) and it would be best to regroup.
3) Yeah, it would've been nice to see more of Vader's creation, but say where's the pain?? Did you not see him writhing in agony on the table as those droids were welding/soldering those artificial limbs to his body? He was still bloody and burned for God's sake! What were you expecting to see??
4) More deciding on what to do with the kids? Come on, what else could they have said? There wasn't much else that we needed to know here. Some long stupid debate on what to do with the kids would be ridiculous and it would slow the movie down unnecessarily. It wouldn't help drive the story.
5) More explanation all around? Of some rather irrelevant points? Okay, here's some answers for you:
--- Leia is a princess because her adoptive mother is the Queen of Alderaan. Why her father is not King, I don't know, but y'know what? Don't really care, either. The story isn't about the Alderaanian people.
--- Why Luke keeps his last name as Skywalker? Well, that is actually a very good question, one I always was perplexed by. My guess is that it simply doesn't sound very good, storywise: Luke Lars, son of Anakin Skywalker. Doesn't work as well. But I concede it is a good question.
---- C-3PO's memory wipe? You seem like a smart guy, you should be able to figure that out. Threepio is a protocol droid prone to talking a lot. Often too much. He talk about what he doesn't remember. No one would ever be able to get info from him, thus knowing about the birth and possible location of the twins. The real question is why they didn't erase Artoo's memory. Maybe they think no one understands his beeps and whistles anyway.

Dammit, I wanted more of the so called EMOTION that they've been pushing in this thing, rather than the simply moodiness and puppy-dog tears that actually fills long, badly written and boring dialogue scenes.

The emotion here was very convincing and felt very real. How can you tell me the scene with Obi-Wan battling his own former padawan, whom he feel akin to like a brother, doesn't generate true emotion? I was genuinely moved when he cries out to Anakin, "YOU WERE THE CHOSEN ONE!" You can just feel the pain in his voice, see it in his voice. It was very palpable. I'm amazed you couldn't see the emotion in this.

Basically, this dropped the ball on too many occaisions to be a great film, and to call it a masterpiece is, well, I don't want to be rude, but it's foolish.

Well, you may think it foolish, but I would venture to guess that many others agree with me that this is Lucas's masterpiece. He has created his greatest visuals of all the films. The story has greater depth than any of the others in the Star Wars saga, whether you liked the story or not; it's really hard to debate that, even for critics. It moved me on many levels, so to say it is "foolish" to call it a masterpiece is meaningless. You see no good in this film, I see more than a movie. I see a classic good vs. evil story. I see a very human story of the struggle of a man to make the right choices who fails but is later redeemed. The film you wanted to see is one I would not be interested in seeing, for it would not be inspired as George Lucas' films have.

Post by **Christian** » May 24th, 2005, 1:11 am

To say that Yoda gave up because he lost his coat is just plain silly.

Leia is a princess because her adoptive mother is the Queen of Alderaan. Why her father is not King, I don't know

How come Queen Elizabeth II's husband isn't the king?

Post by **Ben** » May 24th, 2005, 8:42 am

AniMan wrote:Alderaanian people.

I like that.

Seriously, you make a lot of good points - several of which I can't say I agree with, but that I don't have time to elaborate on.

Clearly, we saw the film two different ways, and neither of us is right or wrong. I'm going to go again and see it with an audience to see what it's like that way, and as with the first Mission: Impossible, I will probably end up liking it more than I did first time.

Seems this may be familiarity though - funny that they showed Phantom Menace here at the weekend and I actually enjoyed watching that again more than I did seeing Sith (despite all the excitement)!

For me, Clones was the best written and plotted (the Hales contribution?)... Sith just felt a little too much done "by numbers".

Glad you enjoyed it though, and glad to have confirmed my insanity at last. Join me, and your destiny will be complete!

Post by **Christian** » May 24th, 2005, 11:47 am

I'm pretty sure Hales helped with the Sith script as well.

Post by **Ben** » May 24th, 2005, 2:07 pm

He's not credited anywhere. I heard he left sometime during writing, as well as Ben Burtt, who later returned.

Post by **PatrickvD** » May 25th, 2005, 11:35 am

Ben wrote:For me, Clones was the best written and plotted

really!?!? I practically died of boredom. Episode 3 and 1 were much better in my opinion. But whatever, to each his own.

Post by **ShyViolet** » May 25th, 2005, 12:17 pm

I haven't seen it yet, been extremely busy unfortunately. But I will! I did recently re-watch The Phantom Menace. It's just amazing how much technology and talented actors George had at his disposal when he made that film and how he basically squanders almost everything.

I totally agree with Ben about Kasdan. George needs to hire some good writers again, dammit!

There's no one as multi-layered or likable as Han Solo in the prequels.

Amidala isn't one-tenth as interesting as Princess Leia.

People love Luke Skywalker because of his bravery and kindness. You could root for him. I will feel "sad" when I see Hayden turn to the dark side and all, but to tell the truth I don't know how much I'll actually care. There's very little drama there....O.K...the boy who invented C-3PEO turned to the dark side....so what? Supposing it was LUKE who actually turned to the dark side at the end of Jedi. (And fought his friends in an upcoming sequal) How much more interesting would THAT have been??

And Jar-Jar was horrible....but not THAT horrible. I thought the kid who played Anakin was much more grating....and you can't edit HIM out.

Post by **Christian** » May 25th, 2005, 12:52 pm

What amazes me is how people can have such wildly different opinions on all things Star Wars.

Post by **ShyViolet** » May 25th, 2005, 1:09 pm

I've been saying for six years that Episode III will be the real thing and Episodes I and II will merely be stepping stones to it.

I understand your point of view, but supposing that A New Hope and Empire had been weak films. Could George have gotten away with saying: "Oh, these are just stepping stones to Return of the Jedi."?

Post by **Christian** » May 25th, 2005, 1:47 pm

Keep in mind that the "stepping stone" thing was something I said, not something George said. However, he did say years ago that Episode III would be the darkest one of all and that it would look like a blend between the classic trilogy and the prequels and then when it actually came out and it was "dark" and did look more like the classic trilogy everyone was surprised.

Post by **ShyViolet** » May 25th, 2005, 4:04 pm

Keep in mind that the "stepping stone" thing was something I said, not something George said. However, he did say years ago that Episode III would be the darkest one of all and that it would look like a blend between the classic trilogy and the prequels and then when it actually came out and it was "dark" and did look more like the classic trilogy everyone was surprised.

I'll try to keep an open mind--I'll wait till after I've seen it.

OMG you have GOT to pick up Mad Magazine! There is a parody on Revenge of the Sith, which I haven't read because of spoilers and all, but I'll bet it's really funny. (I love Mad).

Also, there is a long, hilarious panel on how George Lucas spends his days--a sample schedule. It is SO funny.

Mad is always on-target.