Madagascar

Post by **Meg** » July 26th, 2005, 6:21 pm

ShyViolet wrote:The trailer is SO cute.

I overheard my English teacher talking to a kid about W&G. When I told her they were making a movie, she was overjoyed.

Post by **ShyViolet** » July 27th, 2005, 11:42 am

http://www.iht.com/articles/2005/07/24/ ... orks25.php

Post by **Meg** » July 27th, 2005, 12:36 pm

"We'll get through this," Katzenberg said as he leaned against the candy counter with a bag of popcorn in hand.

That just sounds so odd, for some reason.

Post by **ShyViolet** » July 28th, 2005, 1:46 pm

I feel sorry for him.

I think the problem with DW right now is that Katzenberg just does too darn much for one person, trying to be a creative producer/ceo executive
all in one shot. OF COURSE he has to "be a cheerleader" and promote the movie, he's the one making it. What is he supposed to say, "I'm not too sure how this fim will do, don't invest"? There should be other people that handle the corporate stuff, not him.

Back at Disney even though he was involved in corporate matters he really didn't handel all those money/shareholder issues--that was more Frank Wells' game, and Eisner of course. Katzenberg just cranked out the product. I don't know, I kind of think DW animation might do better if they had a Pixar/type deal going on with a larger company like Disney (dare to dream) that could help handel the money issues, marketing etc...
Shoulder the burden or something.

I mean Katzenberg hasn't run a public company in ten years, and even then he didn't run the company, he just ran the studio which was only part of the company. Plus everything has changed so much since then, what with the DVD home video glut, the existance of other animation competitors (Disney was pretty much the only game in town when JK was there) as well as the whole web/internet revolution. Plus being at a company with the name "Disney" is completely unique and there is a name-brand recognition that can't be replicated anywhere else. I hate to see it but how many people really know about "DW animation" they way people know "Disney animation"? There isn't that creative legacy at your disposal. Unfortunately the only other company that has what comes close to Disney's name-value is....Pixar.

Anyway, all I'm saying is I think Katzenberg/DW (animation) needs a boost from the outside, the way Pixar got one in 1995. It can't be easy trying to hold the fort all by yourself.

Post by **Ben** » July 28th, 2005, 3:24 pm

Joe Schmoes think any animation is Disney animation anyway...

Post by **Meg** » July 28th, 2005, 8:28 pm

Ben wrote:Joe Schmoes think any animation is Disney animation anyway...

Oh man, that is so annoyingly true.

Post by **ShyViolet** » July 29th, 2005, 1:34 pm

I guess so, but then why has their been so much talk about the value of the "Pixar name" and how all these studios want to be linked to them?

Also, it's quite possible now that DreamWorks SKG, the live-action studio, will be sold off to Universal. Nothing is sure yet but they are in serious talks.

Some journalists now are even saying that "it's the end of the DW era."

There's a definete re-structuring going on, both at DW proper and DW animation. Katzenberg is giving more power and autonomy to Roger Enrico and Ann Daly. The situation is kind of uncertain.

Post by **Meg** » July 29th, 2005, 4:09 pm

It's another of those 'wait and see' things, I geuss.

Post by **Ben** » July 29th, 2005, 4:17 pm

DreamWorks, it has to be said, was pretty doomed from the get go, but put up a good fight.

Basically, no new studio had be built since Chaplin/Pickford/Fairbanks joined for United Artists. DWs then had a problem securing actual studio land space (I don't know why they didn't join with Lucas at The Presidio) and it remains that they were basically a glorified production company who had to partner on far too many of their ultimately too few films.

Their slates were weak, and three of four releases a year depended strongly on "tentpole" pictures, co-pros or on the name of their famous S, K and G. Then again, what has G ever done for DWs? Certainly not folded his Geffen Records label into the company, which continues to thrive independently.

Likewise Spielberg, I don't think, has ever truly invested his soul in DWs (I said his soul, not his money). All the films he has personal involvement in (the ones his name appears on as exec, producer or director) are still produced by the Amblin crowd, and he retains owenership of them through that banner (check 'em all out - they're all Amblin logo'd movies).

Katzenberg - with animation - is the one with the biggest investment, emotionally and financially. He's put everything into the company, steered it for the first couple of years, and really got into the animation side. It was his idea to spin it off (bad move) and I still think he feels he has to compete with Disney.

If DreamWorks fails, it's because one man tried too hard, and the other two didn't trust him enough...

Post by **Menace** » July 30th, 2005, 5:38 am

Competing with a huge comodity like Disney seems about as foolish as trying to gain a monopoly over Microsoft, no?

Post by **ShyViolet** » July 30th, 2005, 3:25 pm

If DreamWorks fails, it's because one man tried too hard, and the other two didn't trust him enough...

So very, very true. I hate to say it (and I don't like to swear so forgive me

) but those two (S and G) really didn't do much but sit on their a** for eleven years. Spielberg, IMO, hasn't really done anything radically different than what he did when he was just a director on his own. He's still in his own little world directing films every two or three years (well, OK, maybe one every year now) and really doesn't get very involved in the business end of things...(he hates that part and that was a big reason why he doesn't have any role in the DW animation IPO.)
I think to him the whole thing is like a toy that he used to play with all the time and now he doesn't want because it got too boring.
Like you said Ben, a whole lot of the films were partnerships with Universal (and Spielberg was at Universal all along, so really what's the difference?) and Geffen was basically in semi-retirement when they started the studio--he only got involved because he was Jeffrey's friend. There were several times when Geffen seriously wanted to bail.

Also, I think a lot of people thought Spielberg would get involved in the animation productions or something, both in the television and feature animation arm. Well, no dice. That and there is no TV animation, (unless you count Father of the Pride.) He could have maybe revived the Amazing Stories show or done something similar. Hell, there were a lot of things he "could" have done. The problem was, he just wasn't invested enough.

I think the three biggest reasons DW has had problems is:

1.) The Disney-ABC merger (summer 1995) totally undermined whole DW/ABC deal (Which was REALLY messed up, espeically with Katzenberg and Iger being friends and all) Disney (Eisner) bought ABC, and at the start Eisner made like he wanted to mend fences with Jeffrey and buy their animated shows anyway. It stretched out for months, and of course never materialised, since Eisner was also refusing to pay Katzenberg his bonus. In less than a year, Katzenberg filed his lawsuit.

2.) They never got the studio of their dreams, Play Vista. There was some endangered species living in the swamplands where they wanted to build their studio and environmentalists wouldn't have it. I think it would have provided much more stabitlity for them. They never had a real place they could call "home"--after all they're on the Universal lot.

3.) A bad marketing department. I think what DW really needed was the kind of media power that at least COMES CLOSE to Disney's. I mean, everyone knew about Shrek, but there were films like Spirit and Sinbad that I'd mention to people and NO ONE knew what I was talking about.

4.) Every time DW released an animated film the press went into this whole spin about how Katzenberg just wants revenge on Disney and that's the only reason he made the movie--then they would re-hash the whole backstory of the whole ugly affair and always end with the question: "Well, will this be as good as Disney?" which put the films at a huge disadvantage because almost no film can really live up to the "myth" of classic Disney animation. Plus these are JOURNALISTS, they want good copy, and it's a lot more fun to trash an animated film from an upstart studio and use clever puns to look very, very smart even though in truth the writer knows nothing about how animated films are made and is only parrating what other critics have said.

Anway, that's my views on the matter. Rant over!

Post by **Meg** » July 30th, 2005, 3:36 pm

ShyViolet wrote:That and there is no TV animation, (unless you count Father of the Pride.)

After Father of the Pride, I'm not sure I'd want them to make any more animated shows!

Post by **ShyViolet** » July 30th, 2005, 3:45 pm

I think originally they were aiming towards more Disney-type (and probably 2d) shows. This was way before the whole Shrek/SharkTale/Madagascar phase, that had all that risqe humor. Katzenberg would never have gone that far back then, he was actually pretty conservative at Disney. (sometimes)

Post by **Meg** » July 31st, 2005, 9:55 am

ShyViolet wrote:I think originally they were aiming towards more Disney-type (and probably 2d) shows. This was way before the whole Shrek/SharkTale/Madagascar phase, that had all that risqe humor. Katzenberg would never have gone that far back then, he was actually pretty conservative at Disney. (sometimes)

Hmm...those would have been interesting to see. Oh well.

Post by **Ben** » July 31st, 2005, 5:53 pm

Yeah, I mentioned the Playa Vista thing in my post. That they never moved from Universal must have stumped their growth.

I know a TV version of Sinbad was drawn up, but obviously never happened. Likewise the Bible stories that springboarded off Prince Of Egypt only came to one - King Of Dreams - because that didn't sell very many units.

There were many predictors of doom when DWs started up, but they seemed to defeat them by partnering with other studios and doing some pretty nifty deals with people. But they didn't make enough good choices.

Madagascar

DW troubles