Bolt

[ShyViolet]

Double Post! Sorry.

[ShyViolet]

Pixar 2 has got to be better than what they've been making for the past few years... Wink

This seems to be a common defense for JL's actions (sorry, not trying to single you out Meg. ). It's true that overall Pixar's films have been more profitable than Disney's in the last 7 years or so....that doesn't make them better IMO.

Not to mention the fact that if you compare their films since, say, 1998:



Disney
1998 Mulan
1999 Tarzan
2000 Dinosaur
2001 Atlantis/Brother Bear
2002 Planet/Lilo and Stitch
2003 N/A
2004 Home on the Range
2005 Chicken Little
2006 N/A
2007 Meet the Robinsons


Pixar

1998 A Bug's Life
1999 Toy Story 2
2000 N/A
2001 Monsters, Inc
2002 N/A
2003 Finding Nemo
2004 The Incredibles
2005 N/A
2006 Cars
2007 Ratatouille

Yes, it's obvious Pixar were the moneymakers. But which company took more risks as Chern said, and went for 'different' kinds of stories? Which company went from China to outer space to underwater to the Jurassic Age to fairy tales and back again? Yup--it's Walt Disney.

Maybe that's why Eisner was skeptical about chucking it all and giving the keys to Pixar.

Also, just to clarify some of the facts, here's what Jim had to say:

Sanders was removed as the writer / director of this project back in December (And -- if current reports prove to be true -- Chris actually left the employ of the Walt Disney Company late last week). With John Lasseter then tapping Chris Williams (I.E. A veteran Disney story artist best known for his work on "Mulan" and "The Emperor's New Groove") to be "American Dog" 's new director.

And given that Walt Disney Studios absolutely, positively needs "American Dog" to be ready for release in late 2008 (So that the company can then honor all of its previously arranged agreements with promotional partners, toy manufacturers and other licensees), Williams immediately got to work. Restructuring this film to suit Lasseter's story sensibilities (Who -- it should be noted here -- supposedly wasn't all that fond of Sander's directorial debut, "Lilo & Stitch").

[Meg]

So, if Jim Hill says it...it's a fact?

(Note the use of 'supposedly".)

It's true that overall Pixar's films have been more profitable than Disney's in the last 7 years or so....that doesn't make them better IMO.

Oh, I wasn't taking about money...I'm talking about story quality.

[ShyViolet]

So, if Jim Hill says it...it's a fact?

Actually, I think other sources confirmed the whole Chris Sanders thing as well.

[YCougar]

I'm sure that Chris had more planned than what we heard (after all we only got the "pitch" part of it).

One might want to keep this in mind for the reworked version, as well.

I like Chris Sanders' artwork. Lilo and Stitch was pretty good (the quirkiness was indeed fun) but I don't think we can take that one movie and say "*choir* GENIUS!" Even if that's the case after all, we know that even geniuses can still flub movies.

The point is... I guess I'm just content to sit back and see what happens. I've read Jim Hill articles once in a while, and every time his credibility takes a blow for me... he just seems to be trying to stir people up. Some of it may be true, but the twist he puts on things... it's like an animation tabloid. (though I am overstating that a bit)

Lasseter may indeed have plans to keep Pixar ahead of WDFA. Or he may simply be trying to fix what's been broke in the only way he knows. I just find it funny that people are all "but it's only criticism!" ...yet, they get all defensive when their criticism is criticized.

*shrug* I'll keep up on the news with American Dog and WDFA's new features, but I think I'll keep my distance from this particular drama.

[ShyViolet]

That's probably wise YCougar.

I'll try and follow your example.

[Meg]

WWYCD?

[Daniel]

Huh? I don't understand.

[ShyViolet]

I think Meg wrote: "What did YCougar do?"

I meant to say that I also want to stay out of this somewhat volitile issue.

[Meg]

I think Meg wrote: "What did YCougar do?"

What Would Y Cougar Do, actually.

(BTW, I think the manners of almost everyone on this forum are great - I mean, some sites are pretty much composed of arguments that go on forever and ever. But everyone is so polite here! )

[Daniel]

Oh, that makes sence!

(Btw, I agree with what you said, Meg. I've seen other forums, that are like AHHH! So unlike this one! )

And before I turn into a Vi sequel (geddit?) I'll try, not to comment to harshly on Lassy. -- However, I still feel ending the DTV's is a big mistake. IMO, they were getting a lot better, as evidence of Cindy III, and the early buzz of LMIII. It Just seems foolish.....

Ok, I'm done!

[YCougar]

What Would Y Cougar Do, actually.

*snort* This made me chuckle. *blesses you all with cookies, or something*

I hope I didn't come across as "O so wise " but I want us all to be friends. And this topic is starting to be a dead horse and making me tense. Once these films start to come out, we can resume the beating, I suppose.

[ShyViolet]

" but I want us all to be friends

.

I second that YCougar. As I said before, I didn't mean to upset anyone so...I'll give that poor horse a break!

[Daniel]

I just saw this quote on UD, and thought I should bring it here.

If supposedly rumours that Lasseter was not a fan of Sanders or Lilo and Stitch to begin with, I think it's hardly surprising then he was canned.

But the think that most upsets me about this supposed change in direction is that all the quirk of the original plot has been lost. I mean a TV star German Shepherd called Bolt that thinks all the tricks he does in the show are real? Hello! How can anyone not see that is essentially the EXACT same plot as 101 Dalmatians II: Patch's London Adventure?

Jerry Beck over at CartoonBrew.com has a quote from Leslie Hough (co producer of 101 Dalmatians II), which reads:

"Our film "Dalmatians II" features a German Shepherd deluded by his own stardom named Thunderbolt. In our version Patch, the puppy, is Thunderbolt's biggest fan and has memorized all the episodes of his show. When I first heard about American Dog, I thought the story was similar, but now it is too close for comfort...Disney is welcome to rip itself off, but we, the filmmakers of the first film are kind of shocked."

So even the people who work for Disney are shocked the original quirky sounding American Dog has been rehashed into what is essentially a copy of 101 Dalmatians 2.

All I have to say is ichabod said it best: "If this is true, John Lasster needs to die!"

Well I warned against Lasseter and the changes he's make from the start. Just because virtually every Pixar film shares the same dynamic and plot, it looks like Disney is getting the same treatment.

So true, on many levels.

And I can't believe, I didn't think of 101-II. The similarities, are uncanny.

Although, this is from what we know. Things can change, and we don't know everything. But from just this I don't like the changes.

[ShyViolet]

Here's some interesting thoughts from "Methuselah" on Animation Nation:

Semaj, I suspect the decision to part ways was mutual.

A situation with a person of the stature of Chris Sanders isn't a matter of "dismissal". He wasn't/isn't a regular employee that they'd just reassign. Maybe he doesn't want to do a short.

Chris can pretty much reassess what he wants to do and where.
If his American Dog went south then he himself wouldn't want to be involved with a radical revamp nor would he likely want to do anything else there for a while. I'm just speculating but I don't think for a minute that someone like him is ever in a position of asking "isn't there anything here you want me to do, then?" I mean, it's painful to lose your film-it wouldn't exactly leave most people eager to jump immediately into something else. [Wink]