The Fox and the Hound

[YCougar]

You know, in spite of all the flaws TLK2 has, I will agree. While the original TLK was kinda like an African Hamlet, this was Romeo and Juliet. Shakespeare all the way. Now, 1.5... ug. It was so juvenile and unnecessary, though it was animated nicely. I liked it in the beginning, but once it started to cheaply lampoon original TLK scenes with no sense of timeline... I was gone.

Unfortunately, so many things about the execution of TLK2 was lacking in spite of its decent story base. I think it could have been almost as good as the original, but unfortunately it didn't have the same budget and energy. My main beef was how underdeveloped Kovu was as a character. At least it went for a similar tone, which I appreciated.

Bambi II, I liked even better for the same reason. There was a marked attempt to keep the art style consistent with the original. The film itself was a little too silly at times to match, but cute. And I can't even begin to express how awesome it was to have Patrick Stewart as the stag.

But steering back on topic... I haven't seen Fox & the Hound II yet. The screenshots I've seen look a little too shiny and saturated for me, though. I'm also concerned by how I really don't see a place in the original for a midquel to happen. I might pick this up at the library, but it depends on whether I have things I want to watch more. *shrug*

[Ben]

I don't know why Jim's jumping to F&TH2's defense, but I think he's wrong here. And DTS isn't going out of business any time soon. Their output will be switched to other titles, is all.

And as for F&TH2 being the last one? I guess he'll repeat that piece and change the names when Cinderella III and Mermaid III finally hit the shevles.

[Daniel]

I was happy Jim came to Fox's defence! It really is a good sequel, and nobody should judge it, before even seeing it

I also agree about Fox not being the last one. I think he was going for something else, but I'm still confused

You know, in spite of all the flaws TLK2 has, I will agree.

Thanks

this was Romeo and Juliet. Shakespeare all the way.

Yeah, I forgot thanks for clearing that up!

Now, 1.5... ug. It was so juvenile and unnecessary, though it was animated nicely. I liked it in the beginning, but once it started to cheaply lampoon original TLK scenes with no sense of timeline... I was gone.

I completly agree! The animation really was outstanding, but the story lagged near the end

My main beef was how underdeveloped Kovu was as a character. At least it went for a similar tone, which I appreciated.

Underdeveloped? I kind of agree, but wasn't that the point? I mean, we see him raised in hate, than when it came for him to get his revenge, he softenes up. I kind of liked it that way.

The dark mysterious character..... Love that.

And I can't even begin to express how awesome it was to have Patrick Stewart as the stag.

You to!? I loved his voice, it was so strong and fitting. And I really enjoyed the bonus features, where he was talking about Bambi and how he thought they did justice to the original

But steering back on topic... I haven't seen Fox & the Hound II yet. The screenshots I've seen look a little too shiny and saturated for me, though. I'm also concerned by how I really don't see a place in the original for a midquel to happen. I might pick this up at the library, but it depends on whether I have things I want to watch more. *shrug*

It is indeed more bright and colorful. But, its really not that much of a bother.

The midquel takes place on 2 days, so I can easly see it fitting into the original.

If you really like the original, I say give it a chance! You really will like it. All the new characters are great, and there's a lot of funny moments.

There's one flaw I really didn't care for, and that was the absent appearences of big Mama, Buster and Boomer I really would of liked seeing them, but what can you do? Oh, and that little worm as well, but a cricket, (who looks identical) takes his place.

Hehe, I kinda liked him better

[Meg]

I'll have to agree with SH55 on the issue of TLK2 - it really does feel like a fanfiction, whether or not it's based on a Shakespear play (so was 1.5, BTW, which I enjoyed miles better!)

[Jens]

Jim Hill's defence of F&H2 is just to suck up to Eric Goldberg and his wife, I'll tell you that! He has never defended any of the better sequels, and now he's defending this all the way? Meh...

Anyway, I see animated sequels as a continuation of a story I already loved. I only like the film if it stays true to the original characters and the animation plays a big part in it too (as the animation defines a character and the world they live in). I agree that in most sequels there are parts where you go "Oh man, how corny!", but I see those parts as a "made-for-kids-part" and completely ignore them. They are essential to a DTV movie, as the DTV market is just mainly kids. Actually, you have them in feature films too, but they are not as corny as in the sequels.

If you put those parts aside, you always end up with a pretty entertaining film. Of course there are exceptions (like Hunchback 2, that was the only sequel I stopped before the film was over, ugh!), but mainly the latest sequels stay true to the original.

Oh and by the way, Lion King 2 feels like a fan-fic? Well, let me tell you that most fan-fics are even better than sequels actually produced by Disney. But again, the made-for-kids parts interupt the process of developing a good, solid, family-friendly story like most feature films (meaning Animated Classics) have.

To name some made-for-kids parts:

The Lion King II:
Upendi song
Most Timon & Pumbaa scenes (some very overacted)

I was going to add more, but had a black-out (it's late where I am now), but you get the point!

[Ben]

LK 1.5 wasn't based on a Shakes play per se, but a spoof of Hamlet, by Tom Stoppard.

[Daniel]

Jim Hill's defence of F&H2 is just to suck up to Eric Goldberg and his wife, I'll tell you that!

Oh, well I didn't know

Anyway, I see animated sequels as a continuation of a story I already loved. I only like the film if it stays true to the original characters and the animation plays a big part in it too

Took the words right out of my mouth

Of course there are exceptions (like Hunchback 2, that was the only sequel I stopped before the film was over, ugh!), but mainly the latest sequels stay true to the original.

Poor hunchback I at least liked the little romance it had, and the ending song by Jennifer Love Hewett. Unfortunatly, that alone couldn't save the film.

To name some made-for-kids parts:

The Lion King II:
Upendi song
Most Timon & Pumbaa scenes (some very overacted)

Hehe, I actually like that song it was stuck in my head the for the longest time, along with all the other songs. Deception anyone?

There was also one skit that I assume was for kids in the Fox 2. It was between Tod and Copper, and everytime they agreed on something, they would say "shake on it?" than they would litteraly 'shake' and Tod's fur would puff up. I don't recall the original doing that, but I thought it was very cute and funny

[SPACEHERO55]

The Main Problem that I have with these Cheapquels is that most of the time they destroy the integrity of the original.

Take for example Lady and the Tramp 2: Scamp's Adventure. The main problem I had with this was the songs. The Songs sounded way too contempeary and popish to be in a film that is set in the early 1900's. The songs just did not fit the setting.

In the original the songs fit in perfectly with the setting and time period.

I may have been too harsh on some of these. The Return of Jafar,Beauty and the Beast: The Enchanted Christmas,Belle's Magical World,Cinderella II and The Hunchback of Notre Dame II we just horrible DJ

Pocahontas II: Journey to a New World,The Lion King II: Simba's Pride, The Little Mermaid II: Return to the Sea,Lady and the Tramp II: Scamp's Adventure,101 Dalmatians II: Patch's London Adventure, Mulan II, Tarzan 2,Kronk's New Groove, Bambi II and The Fox and the Hound 2 were mearly mediocure, Not great but no horrible either. Most of these are mildy entertaining for 20 or so minutes If I catch them on Disney Channel.

Then there are thoes that I think are really good. Aladdin and the King of Thieves,The Lion King 1½ and Brother Bear 2 were quite good.

I think you folks take The Lion King 1½ too seriously. Timon and Pumba are some of my favorite characters and the film is just plain silly and funny. If you let your self get bogged down by continuity issues you wont enjoy it. It is ment to be a bit of a spoof , a broad animated comedy like Emperor's New Groove. Just sit back and laugh folks.

As for the Lion King 2 Fan Fic comment. I stand by it. The reason I say that is because most Fan Fiction is very self important and overly melo dramatic. They do the strangest things in Fan Fic. Love Triangles Vengance vendetas, multiple character deaths. Too much drama and tragety. They take the original film's concept way out of line . Fan Fics are way too much like Soap Opera's .

Lion King 2 felt like that , Selfimportant and melodramatic, but thats just what I think.

There are some sequels I would love to see though. A Sequel to The Great Mouse Detective would be soo cool. A Black Cauldron sequel would be cool too.

Ronald C

[Daniel]

The Main Problem that I have with these Cheapquels is that most of the time they destroy the integrity of the original.

Cheapquels? That has to be the lamest label, Disney sequels have been getting for the longest time

Take for example Lady and the Tramp 2: Scamp's Adventure. The main problem I had with this was the songs. The Songs sounded way too contempeary and popish to be in a film that is set in the early 1900's. The songs just did not fit the setting.

I disagree. The songs, while not like the original, are very well sung and 'happy'. I hardly see a difference to the original.

However, I don't examine music and see if it fits into the time period. But, still I thought the songs were great.

And, surpise, surprise, Lady II, happens to be one of my favorites.

I may have been too harsh on some of these. The Return of Jafar,Beauty and the Beast: The Enchanted Christmas,Belle's Magical World,Cinderella II and The Hunchback of Notre Dame II we just horrible DJ

Harsh would be an understatement

I only agree with Hunchback II, and Bell's Magical World. All the others I like.

Return of Jafar- not the best, but its still entertaining.

Beauty and The Beast: The Enchanted Christmas- is no doubt, one of my favorites. The story was just great, and I loved the 3d villain (played by Tim Curry)

Cinderella II: Dreams Come True- you know what? I'm kind of tired of discusing this one. I don't know why it gets so much hate, but I love it. The animation was great. The new voices were top notch, most notably Cinderella (Jennifer Halle) and her Stepmother (Susan B?) the music was memorable, and each insert song is very catchy, especially the end remix

Pocahontas II: Journey to a New World,The Lion King II: Simba's Pride, The Little Mermaid II: Return to the Sea,Lady and the Tramp II: Scamp's Adventure,101 Dalmatians II: Patch's London Adventure, Mulan II, Tarzan 2,Kronk's New Groove, Bambi II and The Fox and the Hound 2 were mearly mediocure, Not great but no horrible either. Most of these are mildy entertaining for 20 or so minutes If I catch them on Disney Channel.

I disagree. Some of these are my favorites, infact I do love them all, minus TLM2.

Then there are thoes that I think are really good. Aladdin and the King of Thieves,The Lion King 1½ and Brother Bear 2 were quite good.

I agree. Minus LK 1.5

I think you folks take The Lion King 1½ too seriously. Timon and Pumba are some of my favorite characters and the film is just plain silly and funny. If you let your self get bogged down by continuity issues you wont enjoy it. It is ment to be a bit of a spoof , a broad animated comedy like Emperor's New Groove. Just sit back and laugh folks.

I just don't like it, because its not that great. I could care less about continuity issues, the story is what counts.

I really do like LK 1.5, I just favor LK2 more and I always will.

Lion King 2 felt like that , Selfimportant and melodramatic, but thats just what I think.

I disagree. I think its a little melodramatic, but not really

1.5 was just a comedy, with a few sappy moments. (Which I liked BTW)

There are some sequels I would love to see though. A Sequel to The Great Mouse Detective would be soo cool. A Black Cauldron sequel would be cool too.

I agree about Detective. Cauldron is ok, but I really wouldn't want a sequel to it.

[Ben]

Lion King 1.5 is hysterical.

I never worked out why they never made more Rescuers, or at least a series. I mean, here was a SERIES of books for goodness sake, set in the contemporary world, with a multitude of plot directions they could go in.

Besides the fact that those two films are some of my favorite in the Disney line up, that series seemed a natural to develop into a "recognised brand extension".

[Dacey]

NO! Let's not bring up "The Great Mouse Detective II". I used to think that a sequel to that movie would be a good idea, but then I changed my mind for, um, various reasons.

"Lion King 1 1/2" is easily one of the best Disney sequels. Kudos to the Sydney team.

[Daniel]

Lion King 1.5 is funny, and I do like it, heck I got it the week it came out. That should tell you something

I never thought about the Rescuers books Ben, why hasn't Disney done them? I wouldn't mind more sequels to that, those are some of my favorites

I doubt they'll make a sequel to The Great Mouse Detective, or even more sequels. After LM3 and C3 there's no sequels, which has me worried

I don't count Tink, or others as sequels

[SPACEHERO55]

The Great Mouse Detective is one of my faves. I think it was hugely underated and Basil of Baker Street is one of the most appealing and engaging Disney animated characters ever. I loved him, He was so energetic and brilliant and had a great sense of adventure, he loved a challange and solving mysteries and the thrill of the chase and he had a good kind nature too and a strong sense of justice, plus he was funny too.

I loved the fact that Sherlock Holmes' Dog Toby was his Freind. I would like to see more films about Basil, but good ones. I also loved the music score for this, by the great Harry Mancini, That Main Theme is sooo great.

They could actually name the second one "Basil of Baker Street" I would love a sequel.

The Rescuers and The Rescuers Down Under are great and yea I would like some decent sequels of these. The Rescuers Down Under was great.

[YCougar]

Ooh, I agree - more Rescuers movies would be great! So long as enough thought was put into it. Down Under was really good... enough that I always forget it's technically a sequel. That's probably because it's one of the few that actually is what I think a sequel should be - another story told with the same characters, not a rehash of the original with the characters' children, or something.

Which... I suppose Great Mouse Detective is a decent candidate for this, because you could just move on to Basil's next case. You'd just have to do it really well, because it's not like GMD has a massive fan following. I love the movie, of course (it shares my birth year, heh), but it's just not one of Those Movies I guess.

@Daniel Jake:
My problem with Kovu in TLK2:
(Hidden to save board space - Meg can probably skip this next bit, as she's probably read this rant of mine before )

He had potential. Kiara takes what he's been taught all his life and turns it on its head. Could be great for character development. But...five minutes and a YEEHAW later, he's already on his way to becoming a Good Guy. He still is inwardly indecisive about how he's going to tell Kiara what he was going to do, but you know that he's pretty much going to the good side.

What would I have liked to see? Something seriously holding him back from switching sides. Perhaps a close sibling bond with Vitani that makes him reluctant to leave his pride. Or some signs of motherly love from Zira that would make him loyal for better reasons than she was just scary. Maybe some prejudice from the Pridelanders' end that turns him off the idea of "Wow They Play Games They Must Be Unfailingly Awesome huhuhuhuh..."

Didn't like the songs very much at all. The love song was OK I s'pose, and "He Lives in You" existed before the movie came out... and it was an awesomer, longer version too.

Oh, and for the record: I watched TLK2 with a friend once, and we hit fast forward every time Timon and Pumbaa came onscreen. The movie's quality doubled. Simple fact of it is: they were totally unnecessary in the sequel and played too much for laughs. Including anachronistic beeper jokes. Bleh.

(I've thought about this too much. )

[SPACEHERO55]

Thanks YCougar

I did some reaserch and the original authur that wrote Basil of Baker Street wrote 4 other Basil books, any of which would make great sequels.

Here they are with breif story descriptions.

Basil of Baker Street - Basil and Dawson go searching for the missing twins of Mr. and Mrs. Proudfoot which takes them from Baker Street, to a harbor, and even to the countryside of England!

Basil and the Lost Colony - Upon receiving a clue, Basil leads an expedition of thirty-two mice in search of the Lost Colony of the Tellmice. Along the way he is pursued by Ratigan and his thugs.

Basil and the Pygmy Cats - Basil receives a clue that hints to the existence of Pygmy Cats. He and Dawson search for the truth while all the while avoiding Professor Ratigan and Captain Doran. Before they even go searching, however, they must first restore the monarchy of Bengistan and place the Maharajah back in power before it is too late for his people.

Basil in Mexico - Basil is going to take a trip to Mexico to help out with a case there, but before he even leaves, he has to solve the Case of the Counterfeit Cheese! Once he gets to Mexico, he discovers that the famed mousterpiece the Mousa Lisa is missing and substituted with a masterful fake and it is up to him to find the culprit. Unfortunately almost immediately afterwards, Dr. Dawson is kidnapped!

Basil in the Wild West - Basil and Dawson continue their adventures in North America in the Wild West solving two mysteries along the way. First, they have to stop smugglers from taking over part of the West and then the duo have to solve the mystery of "The Thing" that is scaring guests of the Hathaway Hotel.



Any of these would make great sequels. Most of these have Ratigan and the Villian again, what do you guys think, should Ratigan be brought back as the villian or should a new Villian be introduced?

Which one of these would make the best sequel? I like the one with The Maharajah, I like globe trotting adventures.