Strange World

[Dacey]

Eric, shut up.

[EricJ]

Okay, I'm sorry that Progressive Representation was stamped on by millions of mainstream moviegoers...
I'll try to get them all to apologize for not seeing it for their own good, and then get Disney to say they're sorry for canceling Owl House.

[Bill1978]

One YouTuber basically summed up what we all suspected, but nobody wanted to say:

(And if had JUST been Lightyear, it wouldn't be a larger problem for the studio that needs fixing.

I'm glad a small niche of their D/P animators feel personally fulfilled and socially vindicated now, but when Iger said "We need to get back to Storytelling as the root of our product", and you might have wondered "As opposed to what?"...this is What.)

I hope she also had a problem with Morgan's romance plot in Disenchanted as that played no major role in the plot OR character development for Morgan.

And since you bought up Lightyear, Eric, I'm going to assume the thing nobody wanted to say is her 'discussion' about Ethan's sexual orientation. Which honestly, in 2022 I can't believe still needs to be a matter of contention. I will never understand why we need to 'protect' children from gay relationships but not straight relationships. Admittedly I haven't seen the film yet, but I assume Ethan is not jumping into bed with his crush and the 'worse' thing that happens is a kiss.

If Disney animated movies were so powerful to alter a child's sexual orientation, then I should be the straightest person alive. And based on her rant, it sounds like Ethan's orientation isn't just a casual blink and you miss it moment (like Lefou's in The Film That Shall Not Be Named) or discussed through euphemisms (like Jack Whitehall's character in Jungle Cruise) or even a 'That's it? That's what people got their knickers in a knot over?' like LIghtyear, they've actually made it an integral part of his character so there is no chance, people will misinterpret who he is or try to jump through ropes to say he isn't gay. Sure, it sounds like they need to remind the audience every five minutes he has a crush on a male, but then isn't the majority of The Little Mermaid about Ariel dealing with her crush? Which is basically 90 minutes of Disney telling us she is straight.

Anyway, before I get off my soapbox, I'll say this: If the movie helps one child have a conversation with their parents and helps them understand something about themselves better, then having a character like Ethan in the movie was the right thing to do. Lord knows, I would have appreciated him as a kid.

[EricJ]

And since you bought up Lightyear, Eric, I'm going to assume the thing nobody wanted to say is her 'discussion' about Ethan's sexual orientation.

(Well, no, I meant that nobody wants to openly use the W-word, for fear people will point and shout "Oo, you're an evil DeSantis minion!"...Nnno. Just that I haven't liked most of the last few Marvel movies, either, and I still can't bring myself to watch The Rings of Power.)

Which honestly, in 2022 I can't believe still needs to be a matter of contention. I will never understand why we need to 'protect' children from gay relationships but not straight relationships.

It's not "protecting" anyone, unless it's protecting stories from self-indulgent vanity-bombs.

The reason a lot of Disney buffs seem to sweat bullets over when and if we'll see the First Really-Truly LGBT Disney/Pixar Character, and Not Another Embarrassing False-Alarm Like In Onward, is not because of the audience, but because of the in-house animators:
It's no secret that an art-related job attracts the demographic, and there are strong communities of animators at both studios carrying the banner, but it's a demographic that can't seem to look past the end of their own mirror, and wants to see themselves in the movie, rather than the characters...They can't RELATE to the story without it! Someone has to be the Jackie Robinson of gay Disney characters, and maybe they'll be the one to break that glass wall!
Tough beans, the story happens to be about the characters--If you want to see a story that you can "see yourself in", go order one of those computer generated "My Adventure" books for 6-yo's, with their name written into the story.

Which, for us civilian grunts in the paying seats, makes it more of a problem of Supply Without Demand:
Mainstream audiences have a little more suspension of disbelief, that they can accept characters who are not the same gender, race or species as their own, and don't feel "snubbed" if their own self-perception isn't written into the story...We're just more easygoing that way. Maybe we just have more imagination.
To say that the function of a story is about anything else is the narcissism that most of us grew out of after that 6-yo. with the vanity book, who didn't think there was anything else interesting in the story except their own name.

So, they didn't go. That, as the bromide goes, is Show Biz.
And no matter how much progressive Warriors want to continue to write a rainbow of diverse characters at the expense of an involving, emotional story that anyone can connect to, they're STILL not going to go. And if that's one of the main sources of your company's income, that's called Deep Poopie.
Be honest: The term "Box office poison" has been around since, what, the 1920's-30's, and probably even before movies. So it seems like we shouldn't be gasping and making a big deal when we can point to the number-crunching, imagine we see a pattern emerging, and say that something connected with a number of flop releases and crippled release strategies probably IS.

[Ben]

Jungle Cruise made a mint and is getting a sequel.

Going right back, Dopey was clearly gay, and no one’s given him a bad time over it or hurt that film's critical reception or box office in over 85 years.

As for that "woke video", I don’t have 18 minutes to waste on some tit of a moaning child-woman.

[EricJ]

Jungle Cruise made a mint and is getting a sequel.

Yes, but as Bill points out, JC was one of the "closet" movies where they could just throw in one line for the noisy folks at home and take it out for the overseas release, which means, like the live-action Movie That Shall Not Be Named, the other 99% of it could keep its mind on the story.

Similarly, I'm guessing America Chavez's "two mommies" disappeared from the overseas release of Marvel's Dr. Strange 2, as if...they never existed in this universe.

Going right back, Dopey was clearly gay, and no one’s given him a bad time over it or hurt that film's critical reception or box office in over 85 years.

Trying to connive TWO off-to-work kisses from Snow? I beg to differ.
Dopey was a little "kid", and Snow was stirring those first feelings.

[Evergreen]

Okay, I'm sorry that Progressive Representation was stamped on by millions of mainstream moviegoers...
I'll try to get them all to apologize for not seeing it for their own good, and then get Disney to say they're sorry for canceling Owl House.

I thought they just passed on a movie that looked boring or bad. The LGBT character wasn't marketed much upfront for that to be the reason.

Going right back, Dopey was clearly gay, and no one’s given him a bad time over it or hurt that film's critical reception or box office in over 85 years.

Being more serious, there's also Pleakley and Jumba who I think both come across like they're in a relationship and regularly crossdress as women... And Lilo & Stitch was a hit in a time when seemingly everything Disney was making was performing poorly. It's weird how we attribute a film's failure to these things, but never one's success to them. It's sort of how people rant about "Strong Female Characters." If a film focused around something like that fails, "out-of-control feminism" is blamed, and yet when something like The Little Mermaid, Mulan, Moana, etc. is successful, nobody gives strong female characters the credit for those films having been successful...

[Daniel]

Streaming on Disney+ Christmas Eve:

[Randall]

Cool. I'll likely check it out that week.

[Ben]

We’re maybe due to do a movie night on Crimbo Eve, which is a toss between this and the restored Muppet Christmas Carol, depending on what our audience makeup is. Have to say I might lean towards this, if only for being new and not seen before. Either that or I’ll save it for during that week too, though I know I’ll end up getting the disc anyway!

[Farerb]

December 23rd on Disney+:
https://twitter.com/DisneyPlus/status/1 ... r3kAA&s=19

[Daniel]

How dare that magazine lie. Oh well. I'll probably catch it whenever. I'm in no rush.

[Farerb]

Ironically I'm going to watch it in theaters on the same date thanks to an office event. I tried to suggest going to Puss in Boots instead but the organizer preferred going to Strange World

[Daniel]

Well, those who haven't seen the original would probably be lost, but I would've championed for Puss too. Maybe you'll at least get an "I told you so" moment.

[Randall]

There are people who liked Puss in Boots?