Animation is for adults also...

[Ben]

If you saw it on DVD, and it wasn't the Australian edition, you saw the cut version.

We only ever got the full cut the first time it was released to VHS in the early 1980s through Thorn EMI and then to sell through on Warner Home Video in the late 1980s. After that, the US edition started to circulate and that's the only one that's been available since then.

Grrrrrrrrrrrrrr!

When it came to DVD there was talk that we'd get the full version but no-one seems to know where it is! I checked all three DVD editions (one in the US/Canada and two from the UK) and all were the cut version. It was only down to some enterprising folks in Australia who got hold of Martin Rosen's own print and transferred that to DVD.

Unfortunately, as my piece said, the print isn't in the best of shape. I'm lucky to have the original VHS edition, which presents a much clearer image (though is VHS of course).

One of these days, I'm going to compile the original cut using the best sources available and color correct it and such. I do love this film, and hate the way it's been treated!

[lordcookie]

Thats a real shame. I want to see the proper cut now. I have to say though, the US cut is still a great film.

[Ben]

Check my link above and order the full cut from EZ-DVD. It's PAL, of course, so you won't have trouble playing it on your player in the UK.

[lordcookie]

Unfortunately its out of stock. I'll try and keep an eye on the site though and see if it comes back in stock.

As we are discussing adult animation, is anybody else a fan of René Laloux's Fantastic Planet? Sure the animation is crude but the art direction is lovely as is the story.

[Ben]

You know, I've had that on tape for the longest time, and bought the recent DVD edition...but haven't actually sat and watched either!!

Must do that soon...

[Rothlor]

Animation is for everyone. All movies made have a flow to the story, animated movies are no diffrent. If the story is strong, character development pulls you in, and you start to care, the job is done. I feel people who are more open to animated entertainment, just have a higher developed imagination. Whoa look at the imagination on that guy.

[cmoon]

RE: Plague Dogs

There's also the question of which cut you're referring to. The truncated US version loses almost 20 minutes of material in a futile attempt to make it a more "family film" solely based on the fact that it was animated and they believed they could go after that audience. The original, much more darker and adult cut, hasn't really been seen since apart from the release in Australia of Rosen's own print, sadly worn.

Lot to comment on, but wanted to slightly argue on this point of the extended version making it darker.

What the longer version ads both makes the film darker in its realism, both also makes the characters more sympathetic and actually allows us to soak up a bit of the characters enjoyment of freedom before things start going very badly. I think this is critical because we must understand why what the characters are doing IS better than captivity. There's some really powerful animation that was edited which accentuates both the innocence of Ralph and Snitter while also capturing the beauty of nature.

The single thing that makes it darker is the of course the issue with what happened to the sniper--you must read between the lines to catch it in the edit, where here you actually see it!

So I don't get what the edits accomplish; but regardless of their failure, they are criminal because of what they do to the final minute of the film; both obliterating Ralph's last line (and obscuring his character transformation), while also speeding up the entrance of the title song. In the original version, there is a space of time after Ralph's final lines and the end credits. We hear the roar of the ocean and in this space the director succeeds in focusing all the thoughts and emotions we've experienced in this film; and only after the whole has sunk in, we hear the first lines of the 'time and tide' song kick in. It is incredibly masterful.

Sorry for resurrecting all this stuff on Plague Dogs, but it isn't just one of my favorite animated films; its one of my favorite films of all times, and I don't need much impetuous to start rambling on about it.

[Ben]

Excellent points...I think we're going to like having you around!

I totally agree...the Embassy Pictures cuts were introduced to make the film more "accessible" and they even overlaid the title song over the front credits as well. In a way, this makes the opening more spooky, going as it does against the sounds of Ralph clawing his way in the submersion tank, but it's just if not more direct with just the sound effects as in Martin Rosen's intended cut.

Yes, as well as being a darker film, we do warm more sympathetically to the characters because we get to spend that much more time with them. And the major cut you mentioned doesn't make sense in the truncated version. That moment is also the pivitol, no-turning-back event too, really emphasising that the cut version is lacking in so many ways.

I have the Australian R4 edition with Rosen's unfortunately scratchy print, and luckily the official UK VHS edition of the full cut, though obviously only at VHS quality. At some point I would love to sit down and do a new composite of all the elements, color correct it and get it back as close as possible to the original intention. As you say, it's not just a good <I>animated</I> film.

[cmoon]

The problem in my mind is that animators don't just come out of nowhere. WD and PD represent a pretty unique style--yet where are the other products by those animators? They must exist but be so different in nature I haven't identified them, or I've just missed some wave of British animation. What really gets me is just how good the animation in PD is (although the frame count is obviously a lot lower than a Disney movie.) I want to say there's some multi-plane camera work in there as well (could be mistaken here); so its just really hard to believe that a a film with such high production values isn't riding on the backs of some very well known animators.

Ah, this is probably just a product of my own ignorance.

At some point I would love to sit down and do a new composite of all the elements, color correct it and get it back as close as possible to the original intention.

Is that something you're capable of doing? Ha! I bet Big Sky would consider a reissue if they had a good print...

[Ben]

As an editor in the UK, I'm well capable of doing that! I've actually offered such a thing to Big Sky too, though they said there was little chance of a reissue simply because their original disc didn't sell too well.

---

Actually, Watership and Dogs were animated by different teams...Watership mostly in the UK, with several known names in the crew, and Dogs in San Fransisco. There were certainly crew members involved with both films who had done work before and after those films, including Tony Guy...and Brad Bird!

The frame count was mostly due to budgets...each of these films were made for far less than the Disney pictures of the time or even Bluth's NIMH. The frame count is roughly twos, which most animation is, though the Plague Dogs benefits from a more experienced crew and a director who was more at ease with animation by then. Indeed, there are large subtle parts of Dogs which are on ones, and look very natural as a result.

[Once Upon A Dream]

I"m getting sick of that,too.
Baiscly most of people who are saying dosn't understand anything ( suddley South Park is adulth for them,i hate South Park).
Also there's this streotyps-some people think that new CGI movies are for adulths but the old movies (well,baiscly the old Disney movies) are for small children,that's just nonsense,the Disney movies are matuer and amazing,the CGI films (altought i enjoye them,too) are childish,most of them are just movies with talking animales and many farting\toilet jokes.
My uncle's wife (is it considre aunt) used to think that,now she and my uncle ask me to see the Disney Princess sing alongs with them.
Anyway this is a stupit and worng streotyps and people shouldn't listen to this at all.

[thatshot]

I kinda agree... i love disney films and watch them on DVD whenever I'm bored.. usually I keep this from my friends because most of my friends would probably think I'm weird if I told them I was watching Cinderella at my age. =(

[Meg]

Well, most Disney movies are primarily aimed for younger audiences - older peeps can still enjoy them, of course, but when people refer to them as 'kid's movies', they're usually right.

I would still LOVE to see animation branch out more as a whole though...Hopefully with stuff like the Simpsons' Movie and Beowulf being released and doing pretty well, we'll be seeing more of that kind of stuff.

[Once Upon A Dream]

Not really.
Disney films are matures and kids can see them,too,the new CGI films are aimed at kids but are still good.

[Megagents]

Animation can make great strides if people would stop looking towards Japan for it and if people like me could get their foot in the door of major companies or make one myself, the only problem is I can't draw but I can think up some pretty good stuff for people who can.