I think BD and DVD will live happily side by side for a long while - probably getting to 50-50 market share. While many people with HD sets and BD players won't upgrade their entire collection, they will stop buying DVDs when they have a choice.
A lot of people without HDTVs don't get that DVDs have to basically be stretched to fill an HDTV screen with an resulting hit on image quality. Once you get used to a BD picture that actually fills your screen in native resolution (or better), you're not going to choose the lesser quality!
As for Blu-ray profiles, I really believe this is a non-issue. The whole point of creating them in the first place was so that early adopters wouldn't have to wait. 1.0 was basically for the early adopters. 1.1 is the "final" standard that all new players are now required to have and was meant to be ready once BD players were ready to go mainstream. Profile 2.0 is optional and doesn't really offer anything that big anyway except an ethernet port for a possible internet connection - which will mainly be used to try to sell you stuff!
Blu-Ray has won the Hi-Def war!
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Here's the first Nielsen numbers since Warner's announcement. Hopefully this the final nail in the coffin of this format war:
http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/01/18/ni ... g-january/
http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/01/18/ni ... g-january/
We must say we didn't see this coming, sure we knew the Warner announcement would have some impact on the Nielsen VideoScan numbers, courtesy of Home Media Magazine, but who would've guessed the spread would be 85/15 (5.7:1)? What is just as telling is the top ten chart, which despite having six titles on it that are also available on HD DVD, not one HD DVD made the list for the first time since we can remember...
Man oh man...
The bad news about HD-DVD just continues to pile in!
The consumer support for the format just collapsed after the WB announcement about BR exclusivity. Tons of HD-DVD players bought for Christmas have been returned, and sales of the format since January 1st are in the toilet!
Sales figures are in at www.thedigitalbits.com and other places. Pay close attention to those pie charts on the Digital Bits website for January 21st. The picture is really bad for Toshiba and the people who are heavily invested in HD-DVD.
I don't think I've seen a new electronics gadget fall this quickly after an announcement.
Of course, it could be a pyrrhic victory for the BR camp in the long run if the general public doesn't bite and start buying a LOT more hi-def discs, period.
DVD sales are in the toilet, but hi-def sales are still a small fraction (3-4%) of that diminishing market, too.
Still, there is a far higher installed base of Blu-Ray players than I believe there ever was for laserdisc. The format should still be profitable long-term and viable. Whether it'll ever see the heights that DVD did is questionable, but somebody's going to make money off of this.
Personally, though, I'd wish ALL the hardware would come down in price. More realistic player prices are great, but if the TV's cost 2-3 times the amount of an old CRT tube I don't know how many people are going to bite. As it is, the United States is in an economic recession whether people want to admit it or not.
The bad news about HD-DVD just continues to pile in!
The consumer support for the format just collapsed after the WB announcement about BR exclusivity. Tons of HD-DVD players bought for Christmas have been returned, and sales of the format since January 1st are in the toilet!
Sales figures are in at www.thedigitalbits.com and other places. Pay close attention to those pie charts on the Digital Bits website for January 21st. The picture is really bad for Toshiba and the people who are heavily invested in HD-DVD.
I don't think I've seen a new electronics gadget fall this quickly after an announcement.
Of course, it could be a pyrrhic victory for the BR camp in the long run if the general public doesn't bite and start buying a LOT more hi-def discs, period.
DVD sales are in the toilet, but hi-def sales are still a small fraction (3-4%) of that diminishing market, too.
Still, there is a far higher installed base of Blu-Ray players than I believe there ever was for laserdisc. The format should still be profitable long-term and viable. Whether it'll ever see the heights that DVD did is questionable, but somebody's going to make money off of this.
Personally, though, I'd wish ALL the hardware would come down in price. More realistic player prices are great, but if the TV's cost 2-3 times the amount of an old CRT tube I don't know how many people are going to bite. As it is, the United States is in an economic recession whether people want to admit it or not.
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Regarding laserdisc, I once read that at its height, there were about 2 million LD users in the United States. And there's what--- already a few million PS3s alone sold in that market to date? So, in its brief life, Blu-ray has already gotten far more penetration of players than LD ever managed, though of course LD did not have the advantage of having a home gaming system to ride in on. Yes, I think that Blu-ray will be around for a long time, whether or not the public at large embraces it in the near future. There's money to be made in keeping the format around, so it shall continue for the foreseeable future.
The jig is up for HD DVD at this point. No big surprise, even to many of us that took the leap and got a player. But I think everyone can admit that having a winner in this war--- any winner--- is a good thing.
The jig is up for HD DVD at this point. No big surprise, even to many of us that took the leap and got a player. But I think everyone can admit that having a winner in this war--- any winner--- is a good thing.
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LD was also only a nice format because you had to go out and buy the hardware, it didn't record, and it took up a lot of space (player and discs) for something you couldn't really use for anything else (other than playing CDs).
Okay, you still have to go out and buy the player, but Blu-Ray has the added bonus of playing back all your previous DVDs (LD couldn't handle all the VHS tapes we'd stocked up on right?) as well as your CDs, and it's connectible to other bits of kit and the net, you can burn your own discs to play back now, and the whole thing is just that much more friendly to the consumer used to dealing with being able to record and do more than just use a machine for watching movies and not much more.
So it's Blu-Ray's extra interactivity that's helped it along. If I could have bought an LD player that didn't render my VHS tapes obsolete, maybe that format would have reached a few more homes too.
Well, that and the price. Don't forget that the average LD was $40, for a movie only edition. That's a lot now, not least twenty years ago. So price is a big factor too - once you've got your monster player and screen you're good to go on titles that are half that price, smaller, and more packed with extras and quality.
So it's no surprise that BR has lept in where LD had trouble making a mark, which, when you take all this into account, was actually a pretty big mark. And if you shave off those that are just using the PS3 for games then things look even closer.
I'm sure BR will far outreach LD's hold, but whether it will surpass DVD's numbers, I'm not so sure. I think it might be the LD supporter's video format of choice amongst a widely DVD world, albeit with a larger share of the pie (though it's all relative as there are more DVD players in homes than VHS)!
Okay, you still have to go out and buy the player, but Blu-Ray has the added bonus of playing back all your previous DVDs (LD couldn't handle all the VHS tapes we'd stocked up on right?) as well as your CDs, and it's connectible to other bits of kit and the net, you can burn your own discs to play back now, and the whole thing is just that much more friendly to the consumer used to dealing with being able to record and do more than just use a machine for watching movies and not much more.
So it's Blu-Ray's extra interactivity that's helped it along. If I could have bought an LD player that didn't render my VHS tapes obsolete, maybe that format would have reached a few more homes too.
Well, that and the price. Don't forget that the average LD was $40, for a movie only edition. That's a lot now, not least twenty years ago. So price is a big factor too - once you've got your monster player and screen you're good to go on titles that are half that price, smaller, and more packed with extras and quality.
So it's no surprise that BR has lept in where LD had trouble making a mark, which, when you take all this into account, was actually a pretty big mark. And if you shave off those that are just using the PS3 for games then things look even closer.
I'm sure BR will far outreach LD's hold, but whether it will surpass DVD's numbers, I'm not so sure. I think it might be the LD supporter's video format of choice amongst a widely DVD world, albeit with a larger share of the pie (though it's all relative as there are more DVD players in homes than VHS)!
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Looks as though, Sony may be planning to release a white version of its 40GB PS3 system in American soon, at least according to this which cites the FCC. If it's true, I think its ugly! X-Box, Wii and the DS is one thing, but this resembles a fax machine!
Okay, what's also interesting to note from the link, is the tag price. Reason being, there's a current rumor suggesting that Sony might be trimming the price off the 40GB soon. If you think about it, it makes sense. Right now, if you purchase a PS3 you get 5 free BD's, right? Well, that offer expires at the end of the month and if Sony doesn't add a new promotion, it could mean a cheaper player - since the movies (individually) add up to at least $100 retail...
Anyway, I wanted throw that out. Yep, with HD-DVD almost dead, it makes this 'rumor' sound like it won't happen, but since HD won't back down, (grr) I don't see why Sony wouldn't do this... it seems plausible.
Coming clean, I would be SO happy if this turns out to be true! I didn't tell you guys, but I finally decided I will buy a PS3 soon. Well, me and my mom.
And $100 off makes it MUCH more tempting, and considering we already have an HDTV, it seems like a no brainer. I have my eyes set on the 40GB, since it's the cheapest, doesn't have that heating problem, smallest (?), it's all I really need.
I know the other models benefit from being able to play almost all PS2 games, but I never got into it, and don't see the need to. However, I know all of them can play PS1 games and that's a major plus! I love, love the original and have about 50 or so games. Plus, it upconverts them! How freaking awesome is that? A few PS3 games also look tempting, so yay!~
I also wanted to say, that you guys really helped out with my decision. Up until a few week ago, the PS3 wasn't even a consideration. So, thanks!!
Okay, what's also interesting to note from the link, is the tag price. Reason being, there's a current rumor suggesting that Sony might be trimming the price off the 40GB soon. If you think about it, it makes sense. Right now, if you purchase a PS3 you get 5 free BD's, right? Well, that offer expires at the end of the month and if Sony doesn't add a new promotion, it could mean a cheaper player - since the movies (individually) add up to at least $100 retail...
Anyway, I wanted throw that out. Yep, with HD-DVD almost dead, it makes this 'rumor' sound like it won't happen, but since HD won't back down, (grr) I don't see why Sony wouldn't do this... it seems plausible.
Coming clean, I would be SO happy if this turns out to be true! I didn't tell you guys, but I finally decided I will buy a PS3 soon. Well, me and my mom.
And $100 off makes it MUCH more tempting, and considering we already have an HDTV, it seems like a no brainer. I have my eyes set on the 40GB, since it's the cheapest, doesn't have that heating problem, smallest (?), it's all I really need.I know the other models benefit from being able to play almost all PS2 games, but I never got into it, and don't see the need to. However, I know all of them can play PS1 games and that's a major plus! I love, love the original and have about 50 or so games. Plus, it upconverts them! How freaking awesome is that? A few PS3 games also look tempting, so yay!~
I also wanted to say, that you guys really helped out with my decision. Up until a few week ago, the PS3 wasn't even a consideration. So, thanks!!
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The PS3 games were made with HDTV in mind, so that, at least is worth it--Daniel wrote:I know the other models benefit from being able to play almost all PS2 games, but I never got into it, and don't see the need to. However, I know all of them can play PS1 games and that's a major plus! I love, love the original and have about 50 or so games. Plus, it upconverts them! How freaking awesome is that? A few PS3 games also look tempting, so yay!~
Of course, there aren't that many PS3 games out there worth playing yet, but it's a start!
(Me, I got the PS3 as the Only Blu Player That Worked, but "Kingdom Hearts" was good enough reason to hold out for the PS2 backwards-compatible model.)
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Which model do you have, Eric? Since I posted my message, I've been going back and fourth on which one I should get.
If I want backwards capability, the best choice would be the 60GB, but I've heard that finding them is rather difficult. Is this true? If so, are there any stores that still might have them in stock, like Wal-Mart, Toys R us, etc.? The 80GB on the other hand is easy to find, but the BC isn't as good and it's a bit more costly!
If I want backwards capability, the best choice would be the 60GB, but I've heard that finding them is rather difficult. Is this true? If so, are there any stores that still might have them in stock, like Wal-Mart, Toys R us, etc.? The 80GB on the other hand is easy to find, but the BC isn't as good and it's a bit more costly!
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I got the 60G back while the clearing was good, and IF you can still find it on Amazon or Best Buy/Circuit City.com), it's worth the money to have all three functions--Daniel wrote:Which model do you have, Eric? Since I posted my message, I've been going back and fourth on which one I should get.
If I want backwards capability, the best choice would be the 60GB, but I've heard that finding them is rather difficult. Is this true? If so, are there any stores that still might have them in stock, like Wal-Mart, Toys R us, etc.? The 80GB on the other hand is easy to find, but the BC isn't as good and it's a bit more costly!
Although I barely use a fraction of the memory space, and only got that because of the PS2 compatibility.
If you can't find it, it might literally be cheaper to get the 40G (which also plays Blu) and a separate PS2 than the big whopping 80, now that they're entry-level pricing the old models around $100.
The more interesting games are still on PS2, but the PS3 games I do play (got the Ratatouille game for Xmas) look pretty spiffy on an LCD.
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Thanks, Eric!
I've been doing some searching online, but so far nothing. The only place I've managed to find the 60GB, is at Amazon - although, they're only available through sellers "used/new". I'm not against the idea, but their new just launched sellers, so I am bit cautious. Amazon is very reliable, so I'll keep it a consideration, if I can't find one offline.
So my current plan: look around a few places near by, and see if I can find the 60GB. If I can't find one and don't go the Amazon route, I'll likely do what you suggested and buy the 40GB and get a PS2 -- because I agree, the PS2 does have more interesting games, like Kingdom Hearts, Jak, Sonic Riders, etc.
I've been doing some searching online, but so far nothing. The only place I've managed to find the 60GB, is at Amazon - although, they're only available through sellers "used/new". I'm not against the idea, but their new just launched sellers, so I am bit cautious. Amazon is very reliable, so I'll keep it a consideration, if I can't find one offline.
So my current plan: look around a few places near by, and see if I can find the 60GB. If I can't find one and don't go the Amazon route, I'll likely do what you suggested and buy the 40GB and get a PS2 -- because I agree, the PS2 does have more interesting games, like Kingdom Hearts, Jak, Sonic Riders, etc.
Interesting new paragraph on today's TheDigitalBits.com about the adoption rate of hi-def video --
"For those of you still here, you might be interested to know that Video Business posted a a piece on Friday in which it's revealed that sales of high-def format players (both formats combined) are currently ahead of the curve of standard DVD's adoption back in the late 1990s. This is obviously with two formats competing via aggressive price promotions and HDTV display bundle deals to encourage sales. Despite this, up until now the competition has also kept most consumers sitting on the sidelines waiting for a winner. It will be interesting to see how an end to the format war will impact the adoption curve of the likely winner, Blu-ray, going forward."
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This has really got me shocked.
I didn't think it was doing THAT well!
I remember DVD was slow going until about late 2000/2001 (I got in November '99 shortly after the Disney announcement of classic animation releases), but a more expensive format that requires a NEW TV purchase is doing this well?
Color me impressed. I guess more people have entertainment $$$ than I thought!
Caveat to non-HD set owners like myself -- even if you DON'T have a hi-def TV set, the Blu-Ray titles definitely seem a bit sharper on regular TV than the average DVD title. True that you don't get hi-def output, but the PS3 and every other authorized Blu-Ray player WILL still play on a conventional TV set through S-Video and composite cables. The improvement is enough to convince that the step up to hi-def TV is definitely worth the investment...!
"For those of you still here, you might be interested to know that Video Business posted a a piece on Friday in which it's revealed that sales of high-def format players (both formats combined) are currently ahead of the curve of standard DVD's adoption back in the late 1990s. This is obviously with two formats competing via aggressive price promotions and HDTV display bundle deals to encourage sales. Despite this, up until now the competition has also kept most consumers sitting on the sidelines waiting for a winner. It will be interesting to see how an end to the format war will impact the adoption curve of the likely winner, Blu-ray, going forward."
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This has really got me shocked.
I didn't think it was doing THAT well!
I remember DVD was slow going until about late 2000/2001 (I got in November '99 shortly after the Disney announcement of classic animation releases), but a more expensive format that requires a NEW TV purchase is doing this well?
Color me impressed. I guess more people have entertainment $$$ than I thought!
Caveat to non-HD set owners like myself -- even if you DON'T have a hi-def TV set, the Blu-Ray titles definitely seem a bit sharper on regular TV than the average DVD title. True that you don't get hi-def output, but the PS3 and every other authorized Blu-Ray player WILL still play on a conventional TV set through S-Video and composite cables. The improvement is enough to convince that the step up to hi-def TV is definitely worth the investment...!
Daniel wrote:Which model do you have, Eric? Since I posted my message, I've been going back and fourth on which one I should get.
If I want backwards capability, the best choice would be the 60GB, but I've heard that finding them is rather difficult.
The 60GB American models are GONE. Have been since December last year. The last time I saw them in stock anywhere was the first week of December.
Most places that didn't have them sold out by the middle of November had clearance sales (I heard them going for as little as $439) to make room for the newer 40GB and 80GB models.
You will only find these 60GB models used and I bet they will only get higher in price as sellers put a premium on them for people who WANT a PS3 with built-in backwards hardware compatibility. Call it the "Amazon sellers' effect." I've seen the same phenomenon occur with recently out-of-print DVDs and it's sickening. Welcome to the dark side of capitalism!
(I can only hope price-gougers get stuck with these things for over 10 years and are left to dump them as expensive paperweights.)
The 60GB American PS3 wasn't the only one that had built-in backwards compatibility circuity. The 20GB American model, which was discontinued in January 2007, also has the same compatibility built-in.
20GB and 60GB models continued to be built in Japan but later production marks of these PS3s had their PS2 circuity removed. 60GB PS3s (and presumably 20GB models) sold elsewhere outside the US and Japan never had the PS2 circuity to begin with!
It's a bit silly to stress over the backwards compatibility since the PS2 is still plentiful and relatively cheap to own now. Nobody's saying you have to get rid of the old systems and it's silly to dump them since you get so little for used PS2s. It does stink for some that the PS3 no longer has native backwards compatibility (it's all software now and only in the harder-to-find now 80 GB models), but hardware configurations do change as equipment gets older. Sony does want to sell more PS3s than they have and knew that some things had to get cut to reduce the unit product cost so that they don't accumulate even more debt over PS3 production than they have already.
Both Sony AND MS have changed configurations of their current generation systems AT LEAST 4 times since they launched them! To Sony's credit, every PS3 has had HDMI support built-in since launch and are all true hi-def systems. It wasn't until the black elite 360 models started selling last year that MS could say the same.
Each PS3 probably still costs around $600-$650 to make...! That's still a lot less than what it was rumored the initial models cost (closer to $800-$900).
One advantage of later-model PS3s is that they probably don't get as hot as the earlier 60GB models do. That's the reason I bought an external fan for the PS3...! It is also by far the noisiest gaming system and set top player I've even owned.
