Award archives...

[ShyViolet]

The reason it took 15 years to make Fantasia 2000 is because the segments were done inbetween features as busy work.

I think Roy had the idea for the film way back in the mid 80's but Katzenberg was totally turned off by it. (rightly, IMO) Because of his lack of interest F: 2000 wasn't greenlit until after he left (October 1994). (Another example of Eisner kissing Roy's a**)

For those ten years it was an independent project done by Roy and some animators, almost completely out of Katzenberg's juristiction.

Jim Hill Article via The Laughing Place

So that's how Musker and Clements found themselves in a recording session with James Woods, fumbling for a handle on Hades. James was looking for some sort of direction. So Ron and John explained that the Lord of the underworld was a powerful figure who was charming but ruthless, capable of doing anything he had to to get ahead.

"Sounds like some studio executives I know," Woods joked.

And that - my friends - is the real secret behind James Woods' version of Hades, Lord of the Underworld. In order to eventually earn the right to make Treasure Planet, Ron Clements and John Musker made a deal with the devil (AKA Jeffrey Katzenberg) to make Hercules first.

Now it's Halloween week 1995. And James Woods has just handed Ron & John the ultimate in-joke to slip into Hercules. After all, what better way is there for Musker and Clements to honor the man who insisted that they make this film than by placing a caricature of him into the movie?

That's right. Jeffrey Katzenberg - in all his smooth talking, schmoozy glory - served as Woods' model for his performance as Hades, Lord of the Underworld.

You want proof? Go find a picture of Disney's Hades. Then take a closer look at his long face, sharp features, intelligent eyes and balding head. Now draw a pair of glasses on the Lord of the Dead 's face.

Does this demon now look sort of familiar?

[ShyViolet]

The problem today is not solely Eisner or Katzenberg. It's that we don't have people willing to take risks, but more importantly that nobody of the caliber of Walt Disney exists in the current Hollywood corporate culture.

Uh...you don't think that making POE, the first DW animated film, was a gigantic risk? An animated Bible movie? Not that a Bible movie can't make money (as we all well know with Passion) but there is huge potential to attract controversy, especially with animation.

What about Spirit: Stallion of the Cimarron--a nearly-silent film about horses?

If you think about it SharkTale was pretty risky too--spoofing mob comedies like that. It could have bombed but it didn't.

Shrek was a HUGE risk...but....well....I won't even go on.

Every DW film tries to be different, and they all take risks. Katzenberg could have taken the easy way out and produced films that are clones of Disney movies. Or, he could have not started an animated studio at all.
Why would he have gone to all the trouble of starting DW animation--competing with DISNEY, the most successful distributor of animation EVER? DW could just produce live-action...an animated movie is a lot of trouble to make. If he didn't care about animation, why would he even bother?

[James]

...If you think about it SharkTale was pretty risky too--spoofing mob comedies like that. It could have bombed but it didn't...

Come on now let's be fair here! SharkTale did good at the domestic box office (though shockingly The Polar Express did a little better), but it was a critical failure. According to Rotten Tomatoes it was the worst reviewed animated film of the year, by far!

DreamWorks took more risks in the past then they are these days. It seems like lately they are trying to emulate the success they had with Shrek.

[James]

...The problem today is not solely Eisner or Katzenberg. It's that we don't have people willing to take risks, but more importantly that nobody of the caliber of Walt Disney exists in the current Hollywood corporate culture...

I believe that John Lasseter is the "new Walt Disney". I don't know if he has the business acumen that Disney had, but creatively speaking Lasseter and Disney are peers, and I don't know that there are that many other people you can put in that class since Disney's death.

[AniMan]

James, you're very perceptive indeed! I agree wholeheartedly: John Lasseter is very much so the "next Walt Disney" in spirit. Like Walt, Lasseter has a love and a knack for the creative side of the animated feature. He, too, knows how to tell a good story, or, at least, how a good story should be told. This many strings of successes can't be wrong.

[Dajoka86]

My apologies to Shrek fans in advance, but the Shrek movies have never done it for me. There is not one aspect of the Shrek films that I don't feel could have been done better: animation, storytelling, desing, etc. This isn't to say that the movies are terrible, they are quite enjoyable. But compared to the quality that Pixar delivers, there's no contest.

[Special_Ed]

You did not provide proof nobody anted to work for Roy.

" What about that Jim Hill article that pointed out how Ron and Jon met with James Woods and they all decided together that they would model Hades after Katzenberg?"

And we ALL know how Jim is ALWAYS right.......

" Maybe that was because the idea was wrong in the first place, and K was smart enough to see that. "

Then why would he agree to it. Any idea can be a good one if done right. The micromanagement killed TP. Plus need I remind you Jim Hill praises that film. If you're gonnsa use a source be consistant.

" Shrek basically poked fun at a whole organization/culture (Disney) and Hades was modled on ONE PERSON. Faarquad looked like Eisner but not THAT much. They didn't imitate Eisner's voice anyway, just his face. "

riiiiiiight.....


THe old handing had Herc and Meg stay on Olympus. She is immortal now...

AS for your soul plot hole, maybe the vast quantiy of souls was too much to take notice?

" Like Roy Disney doesn't. This guy is totally milking the prestige of his last name and playing on people's feelings for the company. At the same time he won't talk about his years at Disney or anything he's actually done/accomplished. "

No one ever praised Roy. You sure get the weirdest ideas...

" I really don't think so. I've read in a lot of places that many of the artists who worked at Disney said that after Katzenberg left, nothing was ever the same and things basically went to hell. A couple of years ago, around the time the first Shrek came out, the New York observer did a story in which several artists at Disney (like Tom Sito) cited Jeffrey's presence at Disney to be the main reason for the animated films' success. "

Oh, please. And I can cite tons of artists too...


""We drink, we dance, we schmooze, we kiss, we carry on, we go home happy."--Hades"

No no no. ITs ""We dance, we kiss, we schmooze, we carry on, everybody goes home happy. Whaddaya say, common?"--Hades"

[Special_Ed]

You did not provide proof nobody anted to work for Roy.

" What about that Jim Hill article that pointed out how Ron and Jon met with James Woods and they all decided together that they would model Hades after Katzenberg?"

And we ALL know how Jim is ALWAYS right.......

" Maybe that was because the idea was wrong in the first place, and K was smart enough to see that. "

Then why would he agree to it. Any idea can be a good one if done right. The micromanagement killed TP. Plus need I remind you Jim Hill praises that film. If you're gonnsa use a source be consistant.

" Shrek basically poked fun at a whole organization/culture (Disney) and Hades was modled on ONE PERSON. Faarquad looked like Eisner but not THAT much. They didn't imitate Eisner's voice anyway, just his face. "

riiiiiiight.....


THe old handing had Herc and Meg stay on Olympus. She is immortal now...

AS for your soul plot hole, maybe the vast quantiy of souls was too much to take notice?

" Like Roy Disney doesn't. This guy is totally milking the prestige of his last name and playing on people's feelings for the company. At the same time he won't talk about his years at Disney or anything he's actually done/accomplished. "

No one ever praised Roy. You sure get the weirdest ideas...

" I really don't think so. I've read in a lot of places that many of the artists who worked at Disney said that after Katzenberg left, nothing was ever the same and things basically went to hell. A couple of years ago, around the time the first Shrek came out, the New York observer did a story in which several artists at Disney (like Tom Sito) cited Jeffrey's presence at Disney to be the main reason for the animated films' success. "

Oh, please. And I can cite tons of artists too...


""We drink, we dance, we schmooze, we kiss, we carry on, we go home happy."--Hades"

No no no. ITs ""We dance, we kiss, we schmooze, we carry on, everybody goes home happy. Whaddaya say, common?"--Hades"

"Well, whatever they did Hades was one hell of a villain. (Ha!) He and Jafar were by far the best Disney villains in a very long time."

agreed.

"I totally agree, I love Hades, but I still think it was kind of mean to model him after Katzenberg..."

like the poe example you mentioned...

"(and Katzenberg had more reason to be mad at Disney than Ron and John had to be mad at him)"

uhuh....

" I think Roy had the idea for the film way back in the mid 80's but Katzenberg was totally turned off by it. (rightly, IMO) Because of his lack of interest F: 2000 wasn't greenlit until after he left (October 1994). (Another example of Eisner kissing Roy's a**)

For those ten years it was an independent project done by Roy and some animators, almost completely out of Katzenberg's juristiction. "
No, it was greenlit in 1990. The rerelease of FAntasia ensured popularity was there hence the greenlight. You sure like to rewrite a lot...

" Uh...you don't think that making POE, the first DW animated film, was a gigantic risk? An animated Bible movie? Not that a Bible movie can't make money (as we all well know with Passion) but there is huge potential to attract controversy, especially with animation."

He only did that because he thought he'd get best picture. That was all speilberg's idea anyway...

"What about Spirit: Stallion of the Cimarron--a nearly-silent film about horses?"

And Spirit was a HUGE success, wasn't it?


"If you think about it SharkTale was pretty risky too--spoofing mob comedies like that. It could have bombed but it didn't."

oh yes, a huge risk and a big success. Please....

"Shrek was a HUGE risk...but....well....I won't even go on. "

Yeah, 90 minutes of Disney and fart jokes....

" Every DW film tries to be different, and they all take risks."

Like Shrek 2, Shrek 3, Shrek 4, Shrek 5, Shrek 6....

"Katzenberg could have taken the easy way out and produced films that are clones of Disney movies. Or, he could have not started an animated studio at all. "

He did do Disney type films. He only started that studio to win oscars and say scre you to Disney

" Why would he have gone to all the trouble of starting DW animation--competing with DISNEY, the most successful distributor of animation EVER? Shocked DW could just produce live-action...an animated movie is a lot of trouble to make. If he didn't care about animation, why would he even bother?"

pride.


john Lasseter is not quite WAlt. John is only in animation. Walt was mch more than that.

[ShyViolet]

You did not provide proof nobody anted to work for Roy.

I never said no one wanted to work for him, I just said I wouldn't
because he doesn't seem like he's really committed to seeing things through. (as it would seem with the whole "SaveDisney" thing).
All I was trying to say was that in the book, it talks about how Roy had a lot of issues with Katzenberg's work methods (showing up early on the morning, on Saturday and Sunday.) Maybe Katzenberg is work-obsessed but if that was Roy's big problem with him....I seriously think that those who support him should take a closer look at this man.

And we ALL know how Jim is ALWAYS right.......

No, Jim is not always right but the two directors of a movie should at least be aware who the main villian is a spoof of.

Then why would he agree to it. Any idea can be a good one if done right. The micromanagement killed TP. Plus need I remind you Jim Hill praises that film. If you're gonnsa use a source be consistant.

He agreed to it but he probably only did it because they threatened to go over his head.... Even afterwards he still didn't want to go ahead with it and that's what got him in trouble with Eisner and Roy.
I don't agree that any idea can be done right, some ideas are just plain bad ideas....

Oh, please. And I can cite tons of artists too...

No one forced those artists to say good things about Katzenberg. And no one forced them to risk their jobs by throwing him a farewell party even after they were told not to...and no one forced them to pay for the parties themselves, either.
Like with every person, some people like him and some don't. It was the same with Walt.

No no no. ITs ""We dance, we kiss, we schmooze, we carry on, everybody goes home happy. Whaddaya say, common?"--Hades"

My bad. I stand corrected.

like the poe example you mentioned...

Well, they deserved it.... After Katzenberg was fired they went out of their way to make his life miserable when he had to deal with Eisner...

Ron and John contributed to getting JK fired. They're the ones who went to Roy like a couple of crybabies. I hope they're happy now.

I know lots of people who liked Spirit, even if it didn't make $ it got generally good reviews. SharkTale made A LOT of money, because PEOPLE LIKED IT. And Shrek 1 and 2 made A TON of money, got rave reveiws, AND Shrek 1 got the Oscar for Best Animated Film. What more do you want?

He did do Disney type films. He only started that studio to win oscars and say scre you to Disney

Like you told me, is there actual proof of this?

And "pride"? C'mon. You really think he would spend so much of his time with animation if he wasn't so invested in it??

[Special_Ed]

You said you didn't know why anyone would want to work for Roy....

" No, Jim is not always right but the two directors of a movie should at least be aware who the main villian is a spoof of. "

How do we know Jim is right here? Also, I never thought Hades looked like K. A director cannot be responsible for every reference in their film. There are too many people working on them for that.


" He agreed to it but he probably only did it because they threatened to go over his head.... Even afterwards he still didn't want to go ahead with it and that's what got him in trouble with Eisner and Roy."

Speculation.....


"I don't agree that any idea can be done right, some ideas are just plain bad ideas.... "


How is Treasure Island a bad idea? It was good enough for Walt...

" No one forced those artists to say good things about Katzenberg. And no one forced them to risk their jobs by throwing him a farewell party even after they were told not to...and no one forced them to pay for the parties themselves, either.
Like with every person, some people like him and some don't. It was the same with Walt. "

Even some of Hitler's underlings liked him....

" Well, they deserved it.... Twisted Evil After Katzenberg was fired they went out of their way to make his life miserable when he had to deal with Eisner... "

Maybe Katzenberg deserved being Hades (if he was based on him)

" Ron and John contributed to getting JK fired. They're the ones who went to Roy like a couple of crybabies. I hope they're happy now. "

proof

" I know lots of people who liked Spirit, even if it didn't make $ it got generally good reviews. SharkTale made A LOT of money, because PEOPLE LIKED IT. And Shrek 1 and 2 made A TON of money, got rave reveiws, AND Shrek 1 got the Oscar for Best Animated Film. What more do you want? "

people went because critics said to. they went to ST because of shrek.


" Like you told me, is there actual proof of this?"

All his 2-d films at DW are like the late 90's Disney films he started.



"And "pride"? C'mon. You really think he would spend so much of his time with animation if he wasn't so invested in it??""

Yes. You don't know K. very well...

[ShyViolet]

You said you didn't know why anyone would want to work for Roy....

Yes, because he obviously enjoys "supervising" rather than actual work.
Jim Hill has said so too. (Yeah, there I go bringing Jim in again.) But anyway...if you pick up DisneyWar you'll see what I mean.

Even some of Hitler's underlings liked him....

Whoa, whoa, so now Katzenberg's Hitler?? C'mon Ed! And why would so many animators have participated saying goodbye to him when they could have lost their jobs for it? (both in Florida and California).

people went because critics said to. they went to ST because of shrek.

No, people went because everyone knew that Shrek was an AWESOME film. So many people I know LOVE that film and always talk about their favorite parts. And most people don't even know who "the makers of Shrek" and "the makers of SharkTale" are. There are people out there who think Shrek is Disney, Shark Tale is Pixar.... And how do you explain the HUGE DVD sales for both films??

All his 2-d films at DW are like the late 90's Disney films he started.

How is a Bible movie, a silent movie about horses and an adventure-comedy like Sinbad modeled after Disney?

And you could never make a film like Shrek at Disney...or a Woody Allen film like Antz. For crying out loud, it was about NEUROSIS!

How is Treasure Island a bad idea? It was good enough for Walt.

Yes, Treasure Island IS a good idea...the first time. Treasure Planet, on the other hand, is an unnecessary re-hash combined with space....which doesn't mix. How could 17th century ships and costmes gel with SPACE for crying out loud? It's too fanboy-orientated--where is that human element that everyone can relate to??

Yes. You don't know K. very well...

True, I don't know him. But there were other ways he could have gotten revenge on Eisner...through television....live-action films...etc...

And in the animated films: He didn't have to make Spirit a silent film, he didn't have to cast Woody Allen in Antz, he didn't have to do a MOB comedy that little kids might not even get. Shrek had adult jokes...and that was a RISK...you have to at least admit that. It could have flopped.
Why would he take all those risks if all he wanted was revenge??

BTW, I don't think he really hates Eisner as much as people think. I think he's a lot more ambivalent about it. I mean, in POE everyone knows that Rameses is Eisner and Moses is Katzenberg and obviously Rameses was not meant to be just a "bad" guy--there's all this regret and sense of loss in the film. ("Goodbye, brother.).
In Shrek, (my opinion) the Shrek-Donkey friendship is actually quite similar to the relationship Eisner and Katzenberg had when they were still together.
And why does the "good looking Human Shrek" in Shrek 2 resemble Eisner so much?

True, this is all speculation and I don't know any of this for sure. But how can you know for sure whether Katzenberg is only out to destroy Disney/Eisner?? I'm not saying that there isn't some element of that in his motivation...there could be. But I think in order to spend all that time doing something you have to really love it...I think it's more complicated than you're saying.

[ShyViolet]

On the one hand I think Incredibles DOES deserve to win but they did win Finding Nemo last year.

Oh well...it's not for me to judge. I liked both movies....

And personally I felt sorry for Syndrome.

[Josh]

And personally I felt sorry for Syndrome.

You know, I did too. I know he killed superheroes, and definitely deserved punishment. However, maybe if Mr. Incredible had given the lonely kid some proper help, instead of basically telling him to get lost, Incrediboy wouldn't have turned into Syndrome.

[Dajoka86]

Lets also not lose sight of the fact that the Academy Awards are a fairly insignificant event that has had decades behind it to hype it up.
It's not necissarily a reflection of a "popular vote," instead it is the opinion of a select group of elites (aka Hollywood people) who pay an annual fee to be a member of the Academy. I find Critic's Choice Awards and the like to be a more realistic appreciation for cinema.

And yes, Syndrome is a tragic villian, part of why he's so cool. He sparks some pretty interesting debates: is there really anything wrong with wanting to be "super?"

[AniMan]

See? Doesn't the fact that just the character of Syndrome alone sparks a discussion show just how great a film The Incredibles is? It truly is the best animated film of 2004!